TT: How both Jackson Holliday and Coby Mayo can make the opening day roster

[Tony-OH]

23 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I just don't understand any other possibility. Urias is the elephant in the room. 

O'Hearn is LH. Mateo has speed and can play outfield. 

First I was thinking nope, but then I started thinking, is it Urias that could go and keep O'Hearn? 

Mayo could still start at DH and then play 3B, with Westburg going to 2B against tough lefties. The question is when Adley needs to DH, does Mayo give Westburg or Mountcastle a day off?

O' Hearn would be a better bat off the bench than Urias and Mateo played a decent amount of 2B this spring so they could very well think he could play there if needed as well.

 

[Spy Fox]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

First I was thinking nope, but then I started thinking, is it Urias that could go and keep O'Hearn? 

Mayo could still start at DH and then play 3B, with Westburg going to 2B against tough lefties. The question is when Adley needs to DH, does Mayo give Westburg or Mountcastle a day off?

O' Hearn would be a better bat off the bench than Urias and Mateo played a decent amount of 2B this spring so they could very well think he could play there if needed as well.

I see Urias as the most likely odd man out because Urias-Westburg might be the most redundant pair of players on the roster. 

[wildcard]

O's win 101 games in 2023.

Holliday replaces Frazier.

Cowser replaces McKenna/Hicks.

Elias waits to see how the rookies adjustment period works out.

The Mayo, Kjerstad and Norby wait for injuries or poor perform of some of the O's.

Santander, Mullins, Hays, Mateo and maybe O'Hearn are probably in their last season with the O's.   Young players just have to show they are better than any one of those players.

Urias is a very good defensive 3B/2B.  He had a poor offensive showing in 2023 but is hitting well this spring.   With 3 years of service time left, Elias is evaluating.

[now]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

O's win 101 games in 2023.

Holliday replaces Frazier.

Cowser replaces McKenna/Hicks.

Elias waits to see how the rookies adjustment period works out.

The Mayo, Kjerstad and Norby wait for injuries or poor perform of some of the O's.

Santander, Mullins, Hays, Mateo and maybe O'Hearn are probably in their last season with the O's.   Young players just have to show they are better than any one of those players.

Urias is a very good defensive 3B/2B.  He had a poor offensive showing in 2023 but is hitting well this spring.   With 3 years of service time left, Elias is evaluating.

Once again, in this calculus Stowers is the Invisible Man.

[Jammer7]

54 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The quote was something he said last year, and it was something like “I’m not going to retire as a minor leaguer.”  I took it as an indication of his drive to make it back to the majors, not an indication that he would retire rather than accept a minor league assignment.  Anyway, he’s not retiring while the O’s have to pay him $3.5 mm so long as he remains active.  

I went back and listened to it again, and it was Ben who stated it. You are correct. O’Hearn was saying he was driven to be successful and never have to go back.

And he likely would not willingly leave $3.5 mm on the table.

I am very curious to see how they handle these young guys. We’ll soon see, but these young fellas have largely done what they needed to do to make this a tough decision. 

[oriolediehard]

What I don't understand with all our up and coming prospects, why does Mateo and Urias need to be on this team? 

[Warehouse]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

With 5 years of service he can not be optioned without his premission.

True, but I can’t see O’Hearn consenting in this context if he has reached the milestone.  Players only typically give their permission to an optional assignment when they are struggling and need to work on something (usually pitchers), and even that’s rare.

If O’Hearn doesn’t consent to an option, then the Orioles must keep him on active roster, release him (and eat guaranteed salary), or try to put him through outright assignment waivers.  In all likelihood, he’ll start the year in MLB and ensure he gets to 6 year service time by year end.  Even if he made it through outright waivers, he’d really just be in the same position as if he had accepted the optional assignment (collect guaranteed salary, don’t collect service time).

[Sanity Check]

2 hours ago, Winter said:

We're getting Wong and Mateo in the opening day lineup and we're going to like it! Well maybe not Wong b/c Sandoval is a lefty so McCann! 

Maybe we can trade Wong to KC for that Frazier guy they have.

[Sanity Check]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I just don't understand any other possibility. Urias is the elephant in the room. 

O'Hearn is LH. Mateo has speed and can play outfield. 

Urias is an elephant with a Gold Glove.  I get it that we all want the young kids to play, but Urias isn't horrible.  I just with another team valued him enough to want to trade  for him.  Until then, I just don't see the O's just releasing him.  

[Jammer7]

38 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

What I don't understand with all our up and coming prospects, why does Mateo and Urias need to be on this team? 

Not every player can play a bench role, and do it well. Young players, especially those with impact upside, should not sit on the bench. It can only delay and/or hamper their development. There are things Mateo and Urias do very well, but they are not first division winner regulars at this point.

If you move either or both, who plays the bench role in your line of thinking? It isn’t that they are not replaceable, but then who? I would not want to relegate Westburg to a lesser role. I do not want to move Henderson anywhere. He can play a great 3B, but I want to leave him at SS. Holliday, if he makes the team, has to be at 2B, or SS when Henderson needs a day off. Norby is not a very good defender, limited to 2B. Wong can play 2B and 3B, but is he a better option than Urias or Mateo? Castillo? Maybe another waiver wire guy?

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, now said:

Once again, in this calculus Stowers is the Invisible Man.

What's he good for?  He only hits home runs, and who needs those, right? 

[Sanity Check]

26 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

True, but I can’t see O’Hearn consenting in this context if he has reached the milestone.  Players only typically give their permission to an optional assignment when they are struggling and need to work on something (usually pitchers), and even that’s rare.

If O’Hearn doesn’t consent to an option, then the Orioles must keep him on active roster, release him (and eat guaranteed salary), or try to put him through outright assignment waivers.  In all likelihood, he’ll start the year in MLB and ensure he gets to 6 year service time by year end.  Even if he made it through outright waivers, he’d really just be in the same position as if he had accepted the optional assignment (collect guaranteed salary, don’t collect service time).

Hyde likes/values his leadership.  Enough said.  He'll be around all year unless he doesn't perform.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Not every player can play a bench role, and do it well. Young players, especially those with impact upside, should not sit on the bench. It can only delay and/or hamper their development. There are things Mateo and Urias do very well, but they are not first division winner regulars at this point.

If you move either or both, who plays the bench role in your line of thinking? It isn’t that they are not replaceable, but then who? I would not want to relegate Westburg to a lesser role. I do not want to move Henderson anywhere. He can play a great 3B, but I want to leave him at SS. Holliday, if he makes the team, has to be at 2B, or SS when Henderson needs a day off. Norby is not a very good defender, limited to 2B. Wong can play 2B and 3B, but is he a better option than Urias or Mateo? Castillo? Maybe another waiver wire guy?

Do you think playing at a lower level than their talent warrants might hamper their development?

[dzorange]

1 hour ago, oriolediehard said:

What I don't understand with all our up and coming prospects, why does Mateo and Urias need to be on this team? 

I think we’ll find that Urias doesn’t need to be on the team as the season goes on. I’m a Urias fan, and he’s certainly an MLB level player, but it’s just inevitable.

I’m not a Mateo fan but the situational upside that he offers is still extremely high.  Perhaps that’s irrelevant once Bradfield is ready. But Mateo can offer electricity defensively and on the basepaths. Doesn’t mean that he’s consistent. But for the last position player on the roster? He’s worth a spot, especially if he can backup CF as well. The O’s value versatility like that.

Perhaps he continues his struggles defensively and he’s no longer an asset. But it’s worth giving him another look.

Edited March 21 by dzorange

[forphase1]

24 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Not every player can play a bench role, and do it well. Young players, especially those with impact upside, should not sit on the bench. It can only delay and/or hamper their development. There are things Mateo and Urias do very well, but they are not first division winner regulars at this point.

If you move either or both, who plays the bench role in your line of thinking? It isn’t that they are not replaceable, but then who? I would not want to relegate Westburg to a lesser role. I do not want to move Henderson anywhere. He can play a great 3B, but I want to leave him at SS. Holliday, if he makes the team, has to be at 2B, or SS when Henderson needs a day off. Norby is not a very good defender, limited to 2B. Wong can play 2B and 3B, but is he a better option than Urias or Mateo? Castillo? Maybe another waiver wire guy?

For me I'd start Holliday,  Henderson and Mayo with Westburg starting 3-4 times a week,  giving one of those 3 a day off/DH day.   So no real bench roles.  Then keep one of Urias or Mateo (I'd rather keep Urias personally), but he is strictly a bench player,  injury backup,  etc, rarely starting.