Jackson Holliday 2024

[casadeozo]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Gilbert and Skubal aren’t controlled for long enough 

Neither Mariners or Tigers are likely to trade them either.

its certainly an issue in MLB. Healthy starting pitching 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Il BuonO said:

He's athletic enough to play there is the main thing. The rest is a learning curve. Not sure the timing is right when they're trying to make the playoffs, there's likely to be a few hiccups along the way. But I'd be fine with it. Who knows if they're even considering it?

We really have no idea what they are planning for him.  We know how they felt about him when they drafted him and we know Elias is saying he expects him to be a key part of this years team.

As I said before, I was told by someone close to the team that the org feels he’s more advanced than Gunnar at the same age but again, that doesn’t mean everything because you have to continue to develop and obviously, Gunnar has done that.

Elias admitted that he called up sooner than maybe he should have but that also tells you how highly he thinks of him.

We have seen prospect guys say he’s the best prospect since Harper and one of the best #1 prospects they have ever seen.

So, who knows. I expect him to compete for batting titles, steal 25+ bases, give us 60+ extra base hits and play good to very good defense whenever he ends up. 

If they want him in CF, I would suspect they tell him that entering either this or next offseason.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, casadeozo said:

Neither Mariners or Tigers are likely to trade them either.

its certainly an issue in MLB. Healthy starting pitching 

Offseason I could see someone big like this being moved but not now.

And yes, injuries are an issue. Braxton Garrett was a target of mine but now he’s in the IL with forearm issues.

[OriolesMagic83]

38 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not just ours, but everyone's, really.

I found it interesting that @Tony-OHsaid that he thinks they could be introduced at the MLB next season.  I'd love to know why he thinks/feels that way...I'd be stoked if that happened.  I have my doubts that it'd be that soon but I'd love to be wrong.

In regards to Holliday, it's so tough to predict what kind of hitter he'll be.  I mean, I don't think anyone was considering Gunnar Henderson to be what he is right now.  I can see a scenario where Holliday is every bit the hitter that Gunnar is, I can also see a scenario where he's a guy that's somewhere between a .750 and .825 OPS yearly.  

If he was the sort of hitter that Adley was last year, that would still have huge value.  

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Yeah , only if Holiday is motivated & desire the task of studying CF

I think his upside in pay would be higher as a CFer vs second base but that’s purely speculative on my part. I just think CF makes more sense for us because of the personnel we have.

[now]

If the arm is an issue then CF makes less sense than 2B, given defense is such a priority. Of if CF is such a priority need for us, then just trade him as a 2B for someone else's star young CFer.

Edited June 26 by now

[casadeozo]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Offseason I could see someone big like this being moved but not now.

And yes, injuries are an issue. Braxton Garrett was a target of mine but now he’s in the IL with forearm issues.

I’d rather we get a buy low candidate or 2 at the deadline like Trevor Rogers and make a meaningful trade in the offseason when the leverage is less balance towards the seller.

[OnlyOneOriole]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Good Lord, somewhere I lost track of this thread only to see it derailed into 10 others subjects.

1) Please keep on the subject of Jackson Holliday
2) My thoughts on Jackson Holliday's "Athleticism." First off, Holliday has very good speed, has made some very good plays defensively while on the move, and is playing professional baseball with the best in the world, that in in of itself makes him above average athletically. Now, saying that, he's not an extreme quick twitch guy and he doesn't have that explosive first step you'd typically want in a shortstop. That combined with his below average arm was why I pretty quickly concluded that shortstop would be a stretch for him without additional physical development. 
3) The arm woes could very well be from him trying to improve his arm strength this offseason. I don't know what his routine was, but watching him lob balls around the infield tells me he was saving his arm and was kind of treating it with "kid gloves" which suggests he was not 100%. How much that has affected his hitting, I don't know, but his domination by major league pitchers was most likely not because of elbow discomfort.
4) I've said for awhile that Jackson Holliday is untouchable along with Basallo and Mayo, and I still think it would take a ton of a return that would include controllable players before I would consider moving him, but I'm starting to think he might be the guy that could get an impact return that I'd be willing to move. 

Now why would I be willing to move him? Quite simply because I would have no issue with an infield of Mayo at 3B and Westburg at 2B. Now, before people overreact here and say I'm down on Holliday, I'm not. I still think he's going to end up a very high OBP hitter with some pop and would look very good on top of this lineup one day. At no point do you give him away and he's certainly not traded for just a rental for this year, but I would listen. 

 

 

Great post and pretty much the same as what I have been saying about JH.  I still think he will be a very good player.  I just don't see elite ELITE in him.   And I think because he was 1 and 1 and blew through the minors so quickly, many just assume he will be the next superstar in MLB.    But as I have said before, he doesn't flash to me like a superstar should.  He performs well, but more so because he is just a really good baseball player, not because he is a freak athletically.   A special special player should not look like he did this spring with the Os.   He was overwhelmed in all aspects.  As he gets older he can gain experience and I am sure he will come back up and look better.  But superstar?  Not imo. 

Meanwhile in relation to the second post that you made about JH versus GH, again we agree and this is the exact same as what I have been saying since I first really saw GH play when they brought him up 2 years ago.  He flashes more than the sirens at a 5 alarm fire.   Hitting.  Power.  Speed.  Defense.   Intense desire to win.  Leadership.  I see it all.  He makes plays and does athletic things that JH can only dream about.  And the reason why?  He is a superb....as in extra special athlete.  Not just baseball player.  

And that is why I think, as long as he stays healthy, he has the capability to go down as one of the greatest players of all time. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

I’d rather we get a buy low candidate or 2 at the deadline like Trevor Rogers and make a meaningful trade in the offseason when the leverage is less balance towards the seller.

My current favorite “package” to deal for is Reid Detmers and Carlos Estevez. I’m not sure if Detmers is available but there is a lot to like there.

[Il BuonO]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I think his upside in pay would be higher as a CFer vs second base but that’s purely speculative on my part. I just think CF makes more sense for us because of the personnel we have.

Yes, even now Mullins gets less and less time and he's a plus defender. I'm not sure Hays is even average anymore, serviceable is the better tag. Cowser is good, but better suited to the corners and especially LF at Camden Yards because he covers so much ground. 

[Moose Milligan]

21 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If he was the sort of hitter that Adley was last year, that would still have huge value.  

Absolutely.  A high OBP bat in this lineup would do wonders.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Great post and pretty much the same as what I have been saying about JH.  I still think he will be a very good player.  I just don't see elite ELITE in him.   And I think because he was 1 and 1 and blew through the minors so quickly, many just assume he will be the next superstar in MLB.    But as I have said before, he doesn't flash to me like a superstar should.  He performs well, but more so because he is just a really good baseball player, not because he is a freak athletically.   A special special player should not look like he did this spring with the Os.   He was overwhelmed in all aspects.  As he gets older he can gain experience and I am sure he will come back up and look better.  But superstar?  Not imo. 

Meanwhile in relation to the second post that you made about JH versus GH, again we agree and this is the exact same as what I have been saying since I first really saw GH play when they brought him up 2 years ago.  He flashes more than the sirens at a 5 alarm fire.   Hitting.  Power.  Speed.  Defense.   Intense desire to win.  Leadership.  I see it all.  He makes plays and does athletic things that JH can only dream about.  And the reason why?  He is a superb....as in extra special athlete.  Not just baseball player.  

And that is why I think, as long as he stays healthy, he has the capability to go down as one of the greatest players of all time. 

So in your opinion, let me see if I got this right, you cannot be a great baseball player without being a "great athlete"? You have surely heard of a guy named Babe Ruth right? I don't have the inclination nor interest to go through the litany/long list of baseball Hall of Famers who were by no means "great athletes".

Is Juan Soto a "great athlete"? Rafeal Devers? Isaac Paredes? Vladimir Guerrero Jr? Jose Ramirez? Yordan Alverez? Matt Olsen? Marcel Ozuna? ... I could go on and on.

You do understand that in baseball they don't run the 40 yard dash or need to jump long distances or high heights in order to succeed? You do know that baseball is a largely hand-eye coordination sport right?

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not just ours, but everyone's, really.

I found it interesting that @Tony-OHsaid that he thinks they could be introduced at the MLB next season.  I'd love to know why he thinks/feels that way...I'd be stoked if that happened.  I have my doubts that it'd be that soon but I'd love to be wrong.

In regards to Holliday, it's so tough to predict what kind of hitter he'll be.  I mean, I don't think anyone was considering Gunnar Henderson to be what he is right now.  I can see a scenario where Holliday is every bit the hitter that Gunnar is, I can also see a scenario where he's a guy that's somewhere between a .750 and .825 OPS yearly.  

Mainly because after year or two in AAA, MLB has been adopting things like the pitch clock, bigger bases, limited disengagements, etc. 

I do think they are worried that offense will spike like in AAA though. I kind of like the umps calling pitches, but the batter and catcher getting so many challenges a game. It was pretty quick and put a little strategy into the game. 

Either way, with Holliday's 70 grade eye, he would benefit.

[OriolesMagic83]

17 minutes ago, now said:

If the arm is an issue then CF makes less sense than 2B, given defense is such a priority. Of if CF is such a priority need for us, then just trade him as a 2B for someone else's star young CFer.

Or pitching.  I heard the O's might need pitching.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

I found it interesting that @Tony-OHsaid that he thinks they could be introduced at the MLB next season.  I'd love to know why he thinks/feels that way...I'd be stoked if that happened.  I have my doubts that it'd be that soon but I'd love to be wrong.

Rob Manfred already has said It’s unlikely to happen in 2025.