Jackson Holliday 2024

[RZNJ]

The guy who questioned Holliday’s ability at SS through first hand accounts and was proven right is being called a complete fool by the guy who thought it was Holliday’s birthright to be the SS because of being drafted 1:1 as a SS.    This is a microcosm of where we’re at today.

[Just Regular]

I believe the best potential outfielder out of Jordan Westburg, Coby Mayo and Jackson Holliday is Westburg.

With Santander still here, and two rookie integration taxes unpaid that is a nothing burger in 2024.

Hyde would still need 3B Westburg on DH Mayo days, and I don't think we'll have O'Hearn and Mountcastle both next year.

[banks703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all, I edited my post. I originally said you are a complete fool in that post. That’s not what I meant to say and I re-worded it.  So, I apologize for that comment.

Now, back to the post..you have 100% said he will never be good defensively at SS.  In one post you will say he could get better and then in another post you will say, he never will. 100% you have said that.

LOL I have always stated that he would improve with reps and better coaching. Never, not once have I ever claimed that he would not get better. Not once. EVER.

I literally just posted what I have always stated about him - 

He will NEVER be the best defensive option at SS at the ML level. NEVER... but he won't kill you there either. He just won't make the plays that a guy like Gunnar would make but he won't be solid there either even like Neto. You could put him there if you had to but he won't ever be THE guy. 

[banks703]

1 minute ago, Just Regular said:

I believe the best potential outfielder out of Jordan Westburg, Coby Mayo and Jackson Holliday is Westburg.

With Santander still here, and two rookie integration taxes unpaid that is a nothing burger in 2024.

Hyde would still need 3B Westburg on DH Mayo days, and I don't think we'll have O'Hearn and Mountcastle both next year.

I agree with this wholeheartedly and thought that JW could be Ben Zobrist. I think the O's like him in the dirt too much though. 

[banks703]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all, I edited my post. I originally said you are a complete fool in that post. That’s not what I meant to say and I re-worded it.  So, I apologize for that comment.

All good and appreciated. I didn't take offense to it. 

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, I liked the idea of Mayo at 3B and Holliday maybe in CF but I was just coming around to the realization that Westburg at 3B and Holliday at 2B was the best future alignment which would make one of Basallo, Mayo, or Kjerstad more tradeable.    I have more confidence in Holliday as a 2B than Mayo as a 3B moving forward and Westburg looks better at 3B.

It's looking more likely that Basallo and Mayo's best MLB position is 1B.  1 of them should be traded and I have a strong belief that Mayo is going to be an MVP candidate just on bat alone (call me crazy).  I think Basallo is the one that should be traded.

[RZNJ]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

It's looking more likely that Basallo and Mayo's best MLB position is 1B.  1 of them should be traded and I have a strong belief that Mayo is going to be an MVP candidate just on bat alone (call me crazy).  I think Basallo is the one that should be traded.

Mayo certainly looks better right now.   I can’t help but thinking what Basallo might look like when he’s 22, three years from now.    I’m torn. 

[RZNJ]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Mayo certainly looks better right now.   I can’t help but thinking what Basallo might look like when he’s 22, three years from now.    I’m torn. 

Basallo might be more desirable to the Tigers if they believe he can stay at catcher.

[Bemorewins]

40 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I believe the best potential outfielder out of Jordan Westburg, Coby Mayo and Jackson Holliday is Westburg.

With Santander still here, and two rookie integration taxes unpaid that is a nothing burger in 2024.

Hyde would still need 3B Westburg on DH Mayo days, and I don't think we'll have O'Hearn and Mountcastle both next year.

Well, if there is a choice to be made between O’Hearn and Mountcastle, IMO the decision is fairly simple. One is a much better hitter than the other (and the strong side of a platoon).

[Bemorewins]

39 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly and thought that JW could be Ben Zobrist. I think the O's like him in the dirt too much though. 

He’s already been an all-star in the INF. Good luck trying to get a guy to switch positions (after he has already made an All-star team) for a guy who has never been a Major Leaguer.

I see there being little to no chance that Westburg is used as a super-utility/move all over the place guy now. He’s already struggled defensively (this season) with his second position 2B. 

[banks703]

33 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It's looking more likely that Basallo and Mayo's best MLB position is 1B.  1 of them should be traded and I have a strong belief that Mayo is going to be an MVP candidate just on bat alone (call me crazy).  I think Basallo is the one that should be traded.

This assessment is based on what? I’ve seen both players a considerable amount and have seen nothing to suggest that Basallo can’t stick at Catcher. In fact, the arm is plus-plus and his pop time has decreased from the day that he was signed. Whether he sticks at catcher has much less to do with his ability to do so and as much, if not more to do with whether or not they sign Adley long-term and/or the org values Basallo’s hit tool more than his positional value, which projects extremely high.

People hang onto Mayo’s size. Yes, he’s 6’5 but he’s incredibly athletic and has the best infield arm in the org outside of Gunnar. He is in no way Vlad Jr. at the hot corner. As I posted earlier, he has great hands for third, the internal clock is fine (he’s rarely rushed or has to rush because of the arm) and moves laterally very well, not just for his size but in general.

I posted two years ago that Gunnar would stick at third. I was the only poster last year who argued that Cowser could play plus defense in center. I was right about Holliday’s defensive limitations. I don’t mention these things to be like “told ya so” but I do know what I’m talking about. With Mayo it’s not about ability. It’s about consistency which is what every passerby stuck on with Gunnar as a SS. I see nothing from a talent or ability perspective that suggests that Mayo’s best position is 1B. 

[banks703]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

He’s already been an all-star in the INF. Good luck trying to get a guy to switch positions (after he has already made an All-star team) for a guy who has never been a Major Leaguer.

I see there being little to no chance that Westburg is used as a super-utility/move all over the place guy now. He’s already struggled defensively (this season) with his second position 2B. 

Here’s the thing though - it doesn’t matter what any of us think. It’s about what ME, Hyde and Co. believe is best for the org and if you’ve ever heard JW in media or spoken with him in person, I promise you that he would run through a brick wall if Hyde asked him to do so. There would be no convincing. He would say “RF, skip? Alright” and trot his ass out to RF and play as hard there as anywhere else on the field. 

[OriolesMagic83]

12 minutes ago, banks703 said:

This assessment is based on what? I’ve seen both players a considerable amount and have seen nothing to suggest that Basallo can’t stick at Catcher. In fact, the arm is plus-plus and his pop time has decreased from the day that he was signed. Whether he sticks at catcher has much less to do with his ability to do so and as much, if not more to do with whether or not they sign Adley long-term and/or the org values Basallo’s hit tool more than his positional value, which projects extremely high.

People hang onto Mayo’s size. Yes, he’s 6’5 but he’s incredibly athletic and has the best infield arm in the org outside of Gunnar. He is in no way Vlad Jr. at the hot corner. As I posted earlier, he has great hands for third, the internal clock is fine (he’s rarely rushed or has to rush because of the arm) and moves laterally very well, not just for his size but in general.

I posted two years ago that Gunnar would stick at third. I was the only poster last year who argued that Cowser could play plus defense in center. I was right about Holliday’s defensive limitations. I don’t mention these things to be like “told ya so” but I do know what I’m talking about. With Mayo it’s not about ability. It’s about consistency which is what every passerby stuck on with Gunnar as a SS. I see nothing from a talent or ability perspective that suggests that Mayo’s best position is 1B. 

Nobody has questioned Basallo's arm.  It's obviously plus plus and much better than Adley's.  The question is he quick enough to handle passed balls and how will he handle a pitching staff.  I have my doubts.  I'm sure it's September 2025 at the earliest before he makes his debut.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

LOL I have always stated that he would improve with reps and better coaching. Never, not once have I ever claimed that he would not get better. Not once. EVER.

I literally just posted what I have always stated about him - 

He will NEVER be the best defensive option at SS at the ML level. NEVER... but he won't kill you there either. He just won't make the plays that a guy like Gunnar would make but he won't be solid there either even like Neto. You could put him there if you had to but he won't ever be THE guy. 

 

I have100% stated and will continue to state that he is not going to be a good defender at SS.. because he will not be a good defender at SS
 

 

Your words and not the only time you have said it. In that same thread you state what you said you stated but then you also say this.  You have done that several times.

[banks703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

 

I have100% stated and will continue to state that he is not going to be a good defender at SS.. because he will not be a good defender at SS
 

 

Your words and not the only time you have said it. In that same thread you state what you said you stated but then you also say this.  You have done that several times.

Him improving and still not being a good defender there can both be true. And they would be if he was going to stick there but they’ve already moved him. He’s a 2B now and has to prove he can stick there. I think that is his best position in the infield but as I have stated for almost two years now, a move to the outfield is not out of the realm of possibility for him.