Right handed hitters, importance of Westburg and Mayo

[Pat Kelly]

A Norby-Cowser platoon in LF might be the way to go.   Would hit for more power than Hays, worse in the field. Hays is what he is at this point and flipping him for BP/Pitching would be unpopular but make sense.  

Holiday replaces Kemp when he is deemed ready.  

Bottom line is the roster is too good to carry marginal players.  Would feel completely differently if Elias were acquiring vets that are difference makers vs replacement level good vibe guys. 

[Brooks The Great]

49 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If you want Mateo on the bench, it should be Urias 3B/Westburg 2B/Adley DH. I agree, I would prefer Norby to Kemp but don't really see a role for either.

Not sure how you can say there's no role for Norby when you're pointing out the configuration that would much less frequently apply to Norby, which is Adley DHing against lefties. Norby serving as the primary DH against LHP (with Adley at C) would be an important role and much more frequent, and I think everyone is going to see this team's weakness there exposed until Holliday is promoted or until Cowser finally gets more playing time (I'd prefer Cowser DHing against LHP to Mateo ever starting as well). 

Edited April 1 by Brooks The Great

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Not sure how you can say there's no role for Norby when you're pointing out the configuration that would much less frequently apply to Norby, which is Adley DHing against lefties. Norby serving as the primary DH against LHP (with Adley at C) would be an important role and much more frequent, and I think everyone is going to see this team's weakness there exposed until Holliday is promoted or until Cowser finally gets more playing time (I'd prefer Cowser DHing against LHP to Mateo ever starting as well). 

McCann should start the majority of games vs LHP since he is RHB and needs to rest Adley twice a week. 

Agree on Cowser vs LHP. He made the team on his merits. He is a highly regarded prospect. He should be starting against RHP and at least occasionally vs LHP. But that is all the more reason that Norby isn't needed.

Norby and Stowers both deserve to get a shot but they are probably better off getting reps in AAA than languishing on the MLB bench. Eventually they may need to be traded if we are to get any value from them.

[EddeeEddee]

1 hour ago, Pat Kelly said:

A Norby-Cowser platoon in LF might be the way to go.   Would hit for more power than Hays, worse in the field. Hays is what he is at this point and flipping him for BP/Pitching would be unpopular but make sense.  

Holiday replaces Kemp when he is deemed ready.  

Bottom line is the roster is too good to carry marginal players.  Would feel completely differently if Elias were acquiring vets that are difference makers vs replacement level good vibe guys. 

I forgot Holiday's spot is currently occupied by Kemp (and not Mateo or Urias), as both are left hitting infielders.  It's hard to believe Kemp is on the team over Holiday, but clearly the FO wants Holiday to spend more time at second base for a little while longer.  

Not sure the FO believes Norby has the glove to replace Hays.  Not sure they believe he is a starting outfielder.  But Hays does appear to be the most vulnerable starting player on the team right now, at least until he gets hot with the bat again, assuming he does.

[OriolesMagic83]

40 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

I forgot Holiday's spot is currently occupied by Kemp (and not Mateo or Urias), as both are left hitting infielders.  It's hard to believe Kemp is on the team over Holiday, but clearly the FO wants Holiday to spend more time at second base for a little while longer.  

Not sure the FO believes Norby has the glove to replace Hays.  Not sure they believe he is a starting outfielder.  But Hays does appear to be the most vulnerable starting player on the team right now, at least until he gets hot with the bat again, assuming he does.

Holliday needs to take Westburg's spot.  Westburg needs to take over Urias's job.  Holliday won't be promoted to sit on the bench.  I guess Urias has to be traded or Westburg demoted for Holliday to get promoted.

[EddeeEddee]

40 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Holliday needs to take Westburg's spot.  Westburg needs to take over Urias's job.  Holliday won't be promoted to sit on the bench.  I guess Urias has to be traded or Westburg demoted for Holliday to get promoted.

In terms of the roster I think Holliday would take Kemp's spot over the others because both are left-handed hitting infielders.  Obviously Holliday would start over the others too, but the others are righties and have other skills, such as Westburg and Urias both being able to play third and Mateo having great speed.  Maybe Mateo gets traded or let go before Kemp but I highly doubt it.     

[Sports Guy]

Yea I think Norby has a chance to have a role on this team despite what some think.  Lots of lefty bats and him learning the OF could allow him some decent playing time.

 

[RarityFlaherty]

10 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

Not sure how you can say there's no role for Norby when you're pointing out the configuration that would much less frequently apply to Norby, which is Adley DHing against lefties. Norby serving as the primary DH against LHP (with Adley at C) would be an important role and much more frequent, and I think everyone is going to see this team's weakness there exposed until Holliday is promoted or until Cowser finally gets more playing time (I'd prefer Cowser DHing against LHP to Mateo ever starting as well). 

I feel like we use the DH spot to rest guys too much for there to be any room for anyone to be a primary DH. Norby would have to prove to be an effective fielder at 2B or OF for him to have enough of a role on this team to be added to the 40 man and brought up. I’d love to see them trade Hays or Urias to make room for either Norby or Mayo though. 

[sportsfan8703]

Detmers had really good stuff yesterday. That’s going to happen in a 162 game season. Sometimes you just get pitched to. 

Elias and Co. have chosen to draft all the LH hitters. So they’re well aware. 

Our lineups are going to be LH heavy with role players being RH. 

[sportsfan8703]

We've learned that LH SP can be real weapon in OPACY.  We have Irvin.  We'll get Means back.  Povich might be an option for next year.  Our rotation needs to get more LH.  2-3 LH SP would be ideal.  Hopefully, with a new owner, Elias can spend in FA, or feels comfortable trading some bat prospects for a LH SP.  

[emmett16]

20 hours ago, Pat Kelly said:

A Norby-Cowser platoon in LF might be the way to go.   Would hit for more power than Hays, worse in the field. Hays is what he is at this point and flipping him for BP/Pitching would be unpopular but make sense.  

Holiday replaces Kemp when he is deemed ready.  

Bottom line is the roster is too good to carry marginal players.  Would feel completely differently if Elias were acquiring vets that are difference makers vs replacement level good vibe guys. 

Hays is 28y/o in his prime.  He’s averaged >2.5 WAR last three years.  He could conceivably do even better this year.   2.5 WAR is an absolute ceiling for Norby/Cowser.  You’re significantly underrating Hays.  I realize there are some shiny new toys, but there is very little chance he gets outperformed by either or a combination of Cowser & Norby this year.  

Edited April 1 by emmett16

[ThisIsBirdland]

On 3/31/2024 at 6:56 PM, Tony-OH said:

Well more precisely, he has to start hitting for some pop. Westburg was disappointing last year power wise at the the big league level and this spring he was not exactly hitting bombs consistently. He looks very unbalanced at the plate and while he's had some nice deep count PAs, he's not driving the ball very much and is not a power threat at all at this point.

Ahem

[emmett16]

3 hours ago, emmett16 said:

Hays is 28y/o in his prime.  He’s averaged >2.5 WAR last three years.  He could conceivably do even better this year.   2.5 WAR is an absolute ceiling for Norby/Cowser.  You’re significantly underrating Hays.  I realize there are some shiny new toys, but there is very little chance he gets outperformed by either or a combination of Cowser & Norby this year.  

@forphase1 what’s confusing about my post?  You think Cowser & Norby would best a 2.5 WAR this year? 

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

@forphase1 what’s confusing about my post?  You think Cowser & Norby would best a 2.5 WAR this year? 

I think claiming that '2.5 WAR is an absolute ceiling for Norby/Cowser' is nothing more than a guess and might be right, but might be wrong too.  They aren't going to get a chance, mind you, but the numbers that both have put up at AAA suggest they COULD (could mind you, not will) perform well if given a decent chance.  Not a Stowers or even Cowser chance at this point, but a real opportunity.  

As to Hays, he's like a bunch of players on our roster.  Decent to good players, but not SO good that we shouldn't consider moving on from them IF we reasonably feel we have decent alternatives.  I'm not saying that a Cowser/Norby platoon would do so, but nor would I just dismiss it out of hand and act as if it would be impossible.  The numbers/stats/WAR that Hays produces isn't so out of the park that a good rookie combo couldn't outperform him.  Doesn't mean they would of course, but the possibility is there.  Just as you feel others are underrating Hays, I feel you are overrating him.  Guy like Hays, Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, etc all have a role on this team for now, but by and large all could/should be replaced with more talented players when the chance arises.  Be that rookies who are ready, trades for established and better players or signing free agents, none of them are elite, and shouldn't at least be discussed how to improve the MLB club at those positions.  Honestly, we only have 3 spots on the MLB team right now that we shouldn't worry about upgrading.  That's catcher, SS and #1 starter.  Pretty much every other position has an average to decent to good player manning those spots, and if the chance to improve exists, we should consider it.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying we need elite talent at every position and we should be moving 80% of our roster.  No team has elite players 1-9, and all around the diamond.  But I'm just saying that 80% of our roster isn't so good that we shouldn't consider replacing them if the right player/deal/situation came along.  The Norby/Cowser idea may not be the right situation, but I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand either.  

[Rbiggs2525]

The inevitability of Hays and Urias becoming super utility guys is getting closer. They are Orioles  and utility position is valuably. There are a lot of examples of Hays not having good baseball AB’s. His last time up a ground ball to second base takes the lead.