Craig Kimbrel 2024

[Il BuonO]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Correct.  I said that Felix made me nervous sometimes and got a lot of flak for that.

He did have an absurd K-rate and you're correct that he had the ability to get six outs.  But if the splitter wasn't on point, it could be a wild ride.

I think people were giving Jim Johnson a hard time back in the day for exactly that...didn't have an elite K-rate, pitched to contact a little bit too much.  

Like when the splitter isn’t doing much and he’s down to one pitch? Yeah, I felt the same. His FB doesn’t move much either, so if he doesn’t have the splitter he’s down to one pitch that ML hitters will time up. 

[Hank Scorpio]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s always rankled me how much crap Johnson took that year.  Buck put him out there 59 times in save situations — that’s a ton, and many of them were nail biters.   He pitched three games in a row twice, he threw 4 days out of 5 and even 5 days out of 6.   The dude was a horse.   

I called him Pig Pen because his sinker was filthy. He was a stud - I remember hIm wriggling out of a jam early on in his career getting Manny to bounce into a 1-6-3 DP and then getting out of the jam after that. 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I called him Pig Pen because his sinker was filthy. He was a stud - I remember hIm wriggling out of a jam early on in his career getting Manny to bounce into a 1-6-3 DP and then getting out of the jam after that. 

Haha, I remember you calling him that.

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

Full Pack - Oh the memories!!!! Kimbrel is not only all star caliber but maybe working toward Hall of Fame too.  I still find it hard to watch the ninth inning. I'll generally do something else and turn back to see what happened. Then if good, watch the recap. I need to manage my stress! 

I'm still not convinced that any reliever besides Rivera really belongs in the Hall. I mean, maybe Wilhelm, too.  I have a hard time making a case for a guy with a 4-5 year run as a really good reliever, and then a long career as a decent guy. I mean, he never threw 70 innings in a season.

[Malike]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm still not convinced that any reliever besides Rivera really belongs in the Hall. I mean, maybe Wilhelm, too.  I have a hard time making a case for a guy with a 4-5 year run as a really good reliever, and then a long career as a decent guy. I mean, he never threw 70 innings in a season.

He's got an outside chance of ending his career with the most strikeouts ever by a RP. That might help his case.

Kimbrel threw 77 innings in 2011 with Atlanta.

Edited Wednesday at 17:00 by Malike

[Allan Bryant]

Does anyone remember Don Stanhouse ?  He was our closer back in 1978-79 seasons . This guy struggled to throw strikes, he would often walk first and second batters with no outs . Then somehow he wiggled out of jams like the one described above .  The late Earl Weaver called Stanhouse “Full Pack” , because he would smoke through the whole pack cigarettes just to make it pass one inning of Stanhouse LOL . Ladies and gentlemen , Stan “the man unusual “ Stanhouse

[DrungoHazewood]

51 minutes ago, Malike said:

He's got an outside chance of ending his career with the most strikeouts ever by a RP. That might help his case.

Kimbrel threw 77 innings in 2011 with Atlanta.

I guess so. But strikeouts are like home runs - exceptionally dependent on era. Dazzy Vance twice led the NL in strikeouts as a starter with totals under 150. And strikeouts by a reliver isn't exactly a milestone benchmark - I had to look it up to know what the records are. Did you know the single-season record is by Dick Radatz, with 183? I didn't until 30 seconds ago. Hoyt Wilhelm holds the current career record, and Kimbrel trails by 135.

You are correct, I missed his 77 inning season with the Braves.

Kimbrel is currently 103rd in career relief innings pitched. Between Tom Henke and Hector Carrasco. 

As with most HOF arguments, I think my biggest beef is that they let a bunch of marginal guys in when trying to figure stuff out, and now the argument is "Well, if Bruce Sutter is in with just 12 years and 300 saves, then Kimbrel and Chapman and Franco and Hoffman and Smith and Lyle and Garber and Fingers and Francisco Rodriguez and Wagner and Mesa and Myers and on and on...." When if you really want to draw a clear dividing line it's Rivera and then everyone else.

Edited Wednesday at 17:45 by DrungoHazewood

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Does anyone remember Don Stanhouse ?  He was our closer back in 1978-79 seasons . This guy struggled to throw strikes, he would often walk first and second batters with no outs . Then somehow he wiggled out of jams like the one described above .  The late Earl Weaver called Stanhouse “Full Pack” , because he would smoke through the whole pack cigarettes just to make it pass one inning of Stanhouse LOL . Ladies and gentlemen , Stan “the man unusual “ Stanhouse

I don't really remember Stanhouse because I was eight in 1979. He did pitch in the first MLB I ever saw in person in September of that year. 

But he was a recurring topic of discussion on the radio and TV of my youth, with the Full Pack story repeated many times by Chuck and Brooks and Jon Miller and others. Stanhouse certainly had a weird profile for a late-inning reliever, walking more than he struck out and with mediocre K rates. But somehow had ERAs under 3.00 in '78-79 despite much worse FIPs. He only allowed four homers in 146 innings those two years, so I have to think he relied on a sinker and the pitcher-friendliness of Memorial Stadium.

When I try to imagine Stanhouse I keep going back to trying to use late-stage Steve Trachsel as a closer.

Edited Wednesday at 17:33 by DrungoHazewood

[Roy Firestone]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't really remember Stanhouse because I was eight in 1979. He did pitch in the first MLB I ever saw in person in September of that year. 

But he was a recurring topic of discussion on the radio and TV of my youth, with the Full Pack story repeated many times by Chuck and Brooks and Jon Miller and others. Stanhouse certainly had a weird profile for a late-inning reliever, walking more than he struck out and with mediocre K rates. But somehow had ERAs under 3.00 in '78-79 despite much worse FIPs. He only allowed four homers in 146 innings those two years, so I have to think he relied on a sinker and the pitcher-friendliness of Memorial Stadium.

When I try to imagine Stanhouse I keep going back to trying to use late-stage Steve Trachsel as a closer.

Don Stanhouse is now 73 years old and lives in Texas...He was a notable playboy when he was with the Dodgers but has been married for 27 years and has three grown children. 

[Allan Bryant]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't really remember Stanhouse because I was eight in 1979. He did pitch in the first MLB I ever saw in person in September of that year. 

But he was a recurring topic of discussion on the radio and TV of my youth, with the Full Pack story repeated many times by Chuck and Brooks and Jon Miller and others. Stanhouse certainly had a weird profile for a late-inning reliever, walking more than he struck out and with mediocre K rates. But somehow had ERAs under 3.00 in '78-79 despite much worse FIPs. He only allowed four homers in 146 innings those two years, so I have to think he relied on a sinker and the pitcher-friendliness of Memorial Stadium.

When I try to imagine Stanhouse I keep going back to trying to use late-stage Steve Trachsel as a closer.

Nice story and thanks for the stats of his O’s career . I was 14 back then in 1979 when Orioles with Stanhouse went to World Series and lost . I also remember he went to All Star Game ( 78 or 79 ) . I don’t remember his ERA but recall his total saves around 25ish in both seasons . Before 1980 season, he signed with the Dodgers, I don’t know what happened with him then 

[Allan Bryant]

5 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

Don Stanhouse is now 73 years old and lives in Texas...He was a notable playboy when he was with the Dodgers but has been married for 27 years and has three grown children. 

Sheesh, that’s the first time I’ve seen him in Orioles uniform after these years. I knew he had red hair with thick mustache . I used to call him Bozo if you picture a red clown nose on his face .  Just wild looking dude . Thanks for sharing 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Allan Bryant said:

Nice story and thanks for the stats of his O’s career . I was 14 back then in 1979 when Orioles with Stanhouse went to World Series and lost . I also remember he went to All Star Game ( 78 or 79 ) . I don’t remember his ERA but recall his total saves around 25ish in both seasons . Before 1980 season, he signed with the Dodgers, I don’t know what happened with him then 

When he left the O's his MLB career was about over. Went to the Dodgers in '80 and only threw 25 innings, allowing 14 runs, walking 16 while striking out just five. Probably hurt, only pitching one game from mid-April through July.

It looks like he didn't pitch at all in '81. In '82 the O's took a flier on him. He didn't pitch well in April and they and sent him to Rochester, where he wasn't very good either. Started 10 of 15 games but with a so-so ERA and that upside down K/BB ratio. Called back up for a few games in July and September. Got a swan song for the Pirates' AAA team in Hawaii in '83, pitching okay, more BBs than Ks but a decent ERA, but that was it.

[Allan Bryant]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When he left the O's his MLB career was about over. Went to the Dodgers in '80 and only threw 25 innings, allowing 14 runs, walking 16 while striking out just five. Probably hurt, only pitching one game from mid-April through July.

It looks like he didn't pitch at all in '81. In '82 the O's took a flier on him. He didn't pitch well in April and they and sent him to Rochester, where he wasn't very good either. Started 10 of 15 games but with a so-so ERA and that upside down K/BB ratio. Called back up for a few games in July and September. Got a swan song for the Pirates' AAA team in Hawaii in '83, pitching okay, more BBs than Ks but a decent ERA, but that was it.

Thanks for sharing this after he left the Orioles info . Looked like he was never the same pitcher since left the Orioles in 1980 . The magic and luck must have ran out on him.  But I’m glad he’s settled down , married with kids and seems happy old man 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When he left the O's his MLB career was about over. Went to the Dodgers in '80 and only threw 25 innings, allowing 14 runs, walking 16 while striking out just five. Probably hurt, only pitching one game from mid-April through July.

It looks like he didn't pitch at all in '81. In '82 the O's took a flier on him. He didn't pitch well in April and they and sent him to Rochester, where he wasn't very good either. Started 10 of 15 games but with a so-so ERA and that upside down K/BB ratio. Called back up for a few games in July and September. Got a swan song for the Pirates' AAA team in Hawaii in '83, pitching okay, more BBs than Ks but a decent ERA, but that was it.

His numbers in his prime weren’t exactly prime.  WHIP of 1.5.  More walks than strikeouts.  It would be similar to giving Cionel Perez every save opportunity and rack up some saves.   Stanhouse wasn’t very good but he had the job.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

His numbers in his prime weren’t exactly prime.  WHIP of 1.5.  More walks than strikeouts.  It would be similar to giving Cionel Perez every save opportunity and rack up some saves.   Stanhouse wasn’t very good but he had the job.

There's something I've never quite understood, but there are a number of pitchers from the 1970s who were reasonably successful despite terrible strikeout and walk numbers. Mike Torrez. Stanhouse. Jesse Jefferson. Mike LaCoss. Greg Minton. They didn't just walk as many as they K'd, they also didn't really K anybody, like 3-4 per nine. They weren't great, but somehow they got by.

I think in that era there were enough terrible hitting middle infielders and big astroturf parks they could pitch around the real hitters, and try to not give up too many homers and usually made it work. But I have a feeling that today anybody trying that would get annihilated.