If Coby Mayo Can Play Average ML 3B Defense

[Moose Milligan]

35 minutes ago, GuidoSarducci said:

Fans like winning teams

The Angels had an *two* MVP calibre players on their roster for several years.

And they didn't even have a winning season.

Damn, it was serious. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Again, how many times have you been to Camden Yards this season?

I have been several and can assure you that many of these fans like this winning team with Gunnar Henderson as it’s cornerstone.

There’s no team in the league that would trade Gunnar Henderson right now if he was on their team in his second season. 

[survivedc]

3 hours ago, GuidoSarducci said:

Fine, trade Holliday.  Or Westburg.

Henderson, Westburg, Holliday, Mayo, Norby. 

Thats five players vying for a combinaiton of 2B/SS/3B, all of which are matriculating more or less simultaneously.

The absolute shrewd logic in trading Henderson vs. the others, his value is maximum since he's already proven himself at the MLB level.  If we believe the other four are all going to be starting calibre MLB'ers, than it might make sense

Yeah, we can DH / 1B one of them but those types of players are fairly easy to find in FA.

Having depth is always nice, but bottom line is that they are going to be more valuable to someone else, than they are to us.

Most likely we don't break the bank on Burnes,  and Means is probably done.  So we'll need a TOR starter next year and for the forseeable future.

Think about it another way, do you think you’re more likely to get appropriate/equivalent value in a trade for Henderson (think about it in terms of WAR) or for one of the other guys?
Here’s the other wrinkle: Gunnar could provide 10 WAR this year. He might go for 7 or 8 in one of those next few years. What are the chances that one of the guys you trade him for will give you that IN this competitive window?

Trading Gunnar isn’t shrewd, it’s fantasy GMing and not committing to being the best.

[Bemorewins]

30 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

There’s no team in the league that would trade Gunnar Henderson right now if he was on their team in his second season. 

I’m not the one advocating such a ridiculous notion.

I think some of these posters (in particular the newbies or seldom used accounts) who  are advocating for these extreme positions that seem very unrealistic, experiential, and most probably alienating to fans are kids (non adults who spend money on the team), trolls, or someone who cannot accept video game fantasy from the business reality of professional sports.

Why would Rubenstein want to get rid of his potentially most valuable asset? 

[DirtyBird]

4 hours ago, GuidoSarducci said:

Fine, trade Holliday.  Or Westburg.

Henderson, Westburg, Holliday, Mayo, Norby. 

Thats five players vying for a combinaiton of 2B/SS/3B, all of which are matriculating more or less simultaneously.

The absolute shrewd logic in trading Henderson vs. the others, his value is maximum since he's already proven himself at the MLB level.  If we believe the other four are all going to be starting calibre MLB'ers, than it might make sense

Yeah, we can DH / 1B one of them but those types of players are fairly easy to find in FA.

Having depth is always nice, but bottom line is that they are going to be more valuable to someone else, than they are to us.

Most likely we don't break the bank on Burnes,  and Means is probably done.  So we'll need a TOR starter next year and for the forseeable future.

I like this shrewd idea of trading Gunnar. Don’t want to hold onto him too long like Manny and only get a Kremer caliber starter in return.

Do you have any hypothetical returns we could get for him right now?

[24fps]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

I like this shrewd idea of trading Gunnar. Don’t want to hold onto him too long like Manny and only get a Kremer caliber starter in return.

Do you have any hypothetical returns we could get for him right now?

Everyone knows that the final arbiter of what determines a legitimately successful franchise is how close it gets to dealing every player at maximum trade value.

[OriolesMagic83]

4 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Everyone knows that the final arbiter of what determines a legitimately successful franchise is how close it gets to dealing every player at maximum trade value.

I thought it was throwing less pitches per game than the other team.

[24fps]

21 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I thought it was throwing less pitches per game than the other team.

A common misconception.  There are certainly more useless metrics than fewest pitches - annual team payroll comes immediately to mind - but maximizing trade value is the gold standard when it comes to signifying an unhealthy confusion between fantasy baseball and actual baseball. 

If I were smarter, I'd come up with the equation that would explain it once and for all.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Again, how many times have you been to Camden Yards this season?

I have been several and can assure you that many of these fans like this winning team with Gunnar Henderson as its cornerstone.

Funny, but 14 year old me didn’t give up on the Orioles when they traded Frank Robinson, who I idolized.   If the team continues to win, fans will not abandon it because a favorite player gets traded.  

But put that aside.  Which will disappoint fans more: (1) trading Gunnar for a huge package that potentially satisfies several long term needs, or (2) failing to extend Gunnar, so that he walks away for a draft pick?   I’d say it’s the latter that would disappoint fans more, by a lot.  They’re going to be very disappointed in either scenario, but the second one is significantly worse.  So, the Orioles need to be very cold-blooded in their assessment: can they get Gunnar to sign an extension that makes long term sense for the franchise?   If they conclude that they can’t, then the question becomes when is the best time to trade him, not if he should be traded.  

I’ve had a box seat to watch this with the Nats.  They faced this decision with Bryce Harper, represented by Scott Boras, who also represents Gunnar.  They made good offers, and Harper didn’t take them.  He left as a free agent.  The Nats ended up getting no compensation for him because they signed Patrick Corbin as a free agent that same offseason.   Believe me fans were extremely unhappy they let Harper go.  Then later, the exact dilemma occurred with Boras client Juan Soto.  It became clear Soto wouldn’t sign a reasonable extension, so they trades him (and Josh Bell) for a huge package that included for Robert Hassell III(minors), Jarlin Susana (minors), James Wood (minors), CJ Abrams, MacKenzie Gore and Luke Voit. Fans were unhappy about that too, but which was better for the Nats?

Now, am I remotely interested in trading Gunnar this offseason?  Not in the slightest.  But after the 2026 season?   That’s when the team needs to make a really cold-blooded assessment.  
 

[Greg Pappas]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Funny, but 14 year old me didn’t give up on the Orioles when they traded Frank Robinson, who I idolized.   If the team continues to win, fans will not abandon it because a favorite player gets traded.  

But put that aside.  Which will disappoint fans more: (1) trading Gunnar for a huge package that potentially satisfies several long term needs, or (2) failing to extend Gunnar, so that he walks away for a draft pick?   I’d say it’s the latter that would disappoint fans more, by a lot.  They’re going to be very disappointed in either scenario, but the second one is significantly worse.  So, the Orioles need to be very cold-blooded in their assessment: can they get Gunnar to sign an extension that makes long term sense for the franchise?   If they conclude that they can’t, then the question becomes when is the best time to trade him, not if he should be traded.  

I’ve had a box seat to watch this with the Nats.  They faced this decision with Bryce Harper, represented by Scott Boras, who also represents Gunnar.  They made good offers, and Harper didn’t take them.  He left as a free agent.  The Nats ended up getting no compensation for him because they signed Patrick Corbin as a free agent that same offseason.   Believe me fans were extremely unhappy they let Harper go.  Then later, the exact dilemma occurred with Boras client Juan Soto.  It became clear Soto wouldn’t sign a reasonable extension, so they trades him (and Josh Bell) for a huge package that included for Robert Hassell III(minors), Jarlin Susana (minors), James Wood (minors), CJ Abrams, MacKenzie Gore and Luke Voit. Fans were unhappy about that too, but which was better for the Nats?

Now, am I remotely interested in trading Gunnar this offseason?  Not in the slightest.  But after the 2026 season?   That’s when the team needs to make a really cold-blooded assessment.  
 

Great post.  Either do it at the right time or suffer another Machado situation, or worse yet the Harper situation.

[GuidoSarducci]

If trading Ripken early his in career would have given us another two World Series after '83, would you have done it?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, GuidoSarducci said:

If trading Ripken early his in career would have given us another two World Series after '83, would you have done it?

Wins or appearances?

[24fps]

I hope that the new ownership coupled with Mike Elias’ management bring a businesslike and disciplined approach to questions like whether to trade Gunnar Henderson.

Several years from now. 

Right now there looks like a season-long battle with the Yankees for the AL East in progress and I’m genuinely baffled at why we’re discussing Henderson’s trade value at this particular moment. 

[foxfield]

50 minutes ago, GuidoSarducci said:

If trading Ripken early his in career would have given us another two World Series after '83, would you have done it?

Well, you could never know and you won't when it comes to making the decision on Gunnar.   But IF you could know that moving Ripken would mean two more flags flying in Baltimore as World Champions.  I'd trade Ripken in a heartbeat.

But here is the thing....Ripken wanted to stay.  And he signed...I hope Gunnar wants to stay and will sign.  But as @Frobby just pointed out.  The Orioles need to take a cold blooded look at this and I think they will.  As a fan, my willingness to accept difficult news...ala Gunnar moving on, is directly proportional to the World titles amassed by ME.

The man has built a juggernaut.  Great.  But he aint getting a statue in CF until his second WS title.  That is tough but I really don't see any other way to look at it.

[yark14]

1 hour ago, GuidoSarducci said:

If trading Ripken early his in career would have given us another two World Series after '83, would you have done it?

If we hadn't sold Babe Ruth to the Red Sox in 1914, how many International League titles would we have won?