O's Acquire Thyago Vieira

[SteveA]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

I was wondering why Brandon Hyde allowed him to face five batters instead of the minimum three?

To see if he could get his act together and throw some strikes.

Why not, the risk to the game was minimal.   And *if* he could go an inning that's an inning less that a more valuable reliever who might be needed in the next few days, which would be a good thing.

If he had been able to pitch the entire inning, and gave up 4 runs -- he actually would have HELPED the team because another reliever would have been able to rest and be available tomorrow or Wednesday.   And our chance of winning the game would have decreased from 99.9% to 99.6%.   

It was a completely safe place to pitch him.  

[NCRaven]

16 minutes ago, Philip said:

Well, we saw how THAT turned out.

What part of we still won by 8 runs did you not understand?  It worked out fine.  I doubt that he'll be here long, but taking a flyer and giving the guy some run in a blowout was harmless.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

OK, thank you, but why didn’t he get a reliever up after the first guy? It took him three walks to realize that it was a bad idea to stick him in?

That’s kind of rhetorical, no need to reply.

Well, I will reply.  With an 11 run lead, you don’t get a guy up in the bullpen just because the pitcher in the game walks a guy.  Or two guys.  The whole idea is to try NOT to use your other relievers or use up their bullets in the bullpen.  

Here are the Orioles’ chances of winning that game for each batter in that sequence (per the BB-ref box score:

Before 1st batter: 100%

After 1st walk: 100%

After 2nd walk: 100%

After 3rd walk: 100%

After 3-run triple: 100%

After 4th walk: 99%

The potential benefits of trying to let Vieira work his way out of it before warming up another pitcher far outweighed the risks of not doing so.  For one thing, you’re trying to learn something about the pitcher.  For another thing, you’re trying to rest the other bullpen guys.  And for a third third, the chances of Boston getting back into the game were infinitesimal.  

[foxfield]

46 minutes ago, Philip said:

I was wondering why Brandon Hyde allowed him to face five batters instead of the minimum three?

@Frobby already covered this in two different posts. But this was a perfect time to pitch Vieira. After his first walk, Mateo came in from short to chat with him and settle him down. No doubt the convo was along the lines of…hey we have this. Just put it in there and let em hit it. Etc. Hyde didn’t get Perez up until the bases were loaded. Of course the next guy promptly drills a triple and rather than rush Perez, he got one more batter which was a 4th walk. Hyde was agitated by the second walk. I haven’t seen what his post game comments were yet. 
 

Edit to add:  Just watched the post game interview…seemed there was much to chat about that was more important than Vieira’s 5 batters. Hyde even discussed the Mustard Ketchup Relish race yesterday being live.  Personally I would have asked this question:   Did you say anything to Vieira when you got to him, or did you just tell him the weather forecast for Norfolk?

Edited May 28 by foxfield

[accinfo]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I find that comment preposterous.  The guy’s “track record” consists of 51 innings spread out over 5 years with a 3-year stint in Japan in between.  Giving a guy with a live arm like that a couple of chances at the last spot in the bullpen is hardly “irresponsible,” whether or not it works out.  

I think some people around here forget what “irresponsible” management was around here.  Drafting Billy Rowell pops in my mind.  Mike Elias in my eyes has done nothing “irresponsible.”  Also I will  say I am not embarrassed by his pickup or use in yesterday’s game either.

Edited May 28 by accinfo

[RZNJ]

Sometimes I think we pick up guys simply because they looked good against us.  I believe Jonathan Heasley once threw 7 shutout innings against us and Thyago threw two scoreless against us earlier this year.   That could be the extent of the scouting report.

[Malike]

He's in the bottom 8% or lower in xSLG, xWOBA, xWOBACON, BB%, and xERA. I have no issue that they brought him in with an 11-run lead, but it was silly he couldn't throw a strike. His fastball must not fool many people because they didn't even flinch at the close ones.

[DirtyBird]

I think we should get another 11-0 lead and try him again

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

I think we should get another 11-0 lead and try him again

Heck, I might even try him with a 6-run lead.   

[Philip]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I find that comment preposterous.  The guy’s “track record” consists of 51 innings spread out over 5 years with a 3-year stint in Japan in between.  Giving a guy with a live arm like that a couple of chances at the last spot in the bullpen is hardly “irresponsible,” whether or not it works out.  

With respect, I totally disagree. Experience isn’t just what you’ve done, its what you haven’t done when given an opportunity. Looking at his body of work, it is littered with failed opportunity.

there was literally nothing to suggest Viera would suddenly be other then he has been, and he wasn’t.

As I said, it would have been fine to DFA him, stick him in the minors after he cleared waivers, and experiment a bit. And if he gets claimed, who cares, because he’s not the main part of the trade.

And it wasn’t just adding Viera and his career -.3 WaR, but subtracting  Vespi, who in very limited MLB experience (35 innings) has a .3 WAR.
Viera has 51 MLB innings(22 this season) with a career 1.7 WHIP, and 1.9 WHIP this season. There’s no reason to expect anything other than he did.

So, you da man, Frobby, but we’re voting different parties on this one. Adding Viera quite literally made the bullpen worse, and probably was a huge slap in Vespi’s face to boot.

[Ridgway22]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

........  For one thing, you’re trying to learn something about the pitcher.  For another thing, you’re trying to rest the other bullpen guys.  And for a third third, the chances of Boston getting back into the game were infinitesimal.  

Mission accomplished.

 

[Philip]

54 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I will reply.  With an 11 run lead, you don’t get a guy up in the bullpen just because the pitcher in the game walks a guy.  Or two guys.  The whole idea is to try NOT to use your other relievers or use up their bullets in the bullpen.  

Here are the Orioles’ chances of winning that game for each batter in that sequence (per the BB-ref box score:

Before 1st batter: 100%

After 1st walk: 100%

After 2nd walk: 100%

After 3rd walk: 100%

After 3-run triple: 100%

After 4th walk: 99%

The potential benefits of trying to let Vieira work his way out of it before warming up another pitcher far outweighed the risks of not doing so.  For one thing, you’re trying to learn something about the pitcher.  For another thing, you’re trying to rest the other bullpen guys.  And for a third third, the chances of Boston getting back into the game were infinitesimal.  

Well, I already addressed that in my just-now comment, but when you know a guy is terrible, AND you know he’s not going more then an inning ANYWAY, you have another guy ready immediately.  
There was nothing to learn, btw. He’s bad. Maybe he’s fine for the Rockies or White Sox, but not for a team looking at 100+ wins.
 

Edited May 28 by Philip
Addendum

[Roll Tide]

59 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

What part of we still won by 8 runs did you not understand?  It worked out fine.  I doubt that he'll be here long, but taking a flyer and giving the guy some run in a blowout was harmless.

Listen … I realize the game was never in jeopardy. But, you got exactly from this guy what his recent performance. 
 

I’m shocked Elias and Hyde would waste time on these types of guys. Not much different that the guy… Ramirez I think that they picked up and then released earlier this season. We didn’t give up anything substantial and the must love him.
 

 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Listen … I realize the game was never in jeopardy. But, you got exactly from this guy what his recent performance. 
 

I’m shocked Elias and Hyde would waste time on these types of guys. Not much different that the guy… Ramirez I think that they picked up and then released earlier this season. We didn’t give up anything substantial and the must love him.
 

 

I don't really think the trade was really about Thyago at all, is the thing. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

.

So, you da man, Frobby, but we’re voting different parties on this one. Adding Viera quite literally made the bullpen worse, and probably was a huge slap in Vespi’s face to boot.

I don’t see this as me vs. you.  I see it as your opinion vs. Mike Elias’, with the “irresponsible” label thrown in.  This move may not work (it certainly didn’t yesterday), but you’re never going to get me to agree that Elias made an irresponsible decision here.