The 2024 Trade Deadline

[RVAOsFan]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/phillies-discussed-surprising-deadline-trade-orioles-insider/8782667b5307bc13efc2424e
 

Well isn’t that interesting.  I know Bowden has a tendency to be full of poop but Philly does need a CFer and this does make sense.

Trading a veteran outfielder makes sense but Mullins being traded would surprise me a little bit.  That leaves Cowser as the everyday CF unless a trade is made? I don't hate the idea of moving Holliday to CF but that would take some time to get him adjusted.

[Bemorewins]

45 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

 

I'm not knocking the trade, as I said in my post. I love Burnes and hope we pony up to resign him. I just disagree with the idea Ortiz HAD to go since he had no place here. We are seeing that very obviously he had a place here this year. I've watched Urias or Mateo everyday. Holliday wasn't/isn't ready. How many 20 year olds are? Will he be ready at 21? I hope so. 

Short term = there were at-bats for Ortiz. 

Long term = It could have been a challenge to find him at-bats, if things break right. But there's uncertainty I'm not sure that other posters are acknowledging. Even then, I could envision a future of 1B = Mayo, 2B = Holliday, 3B = Ortiz/Westburg, SS = Henderson, everyday utility backing up IF/OF = Westburg/Ortiz. I know they put Westburg in the outfield a little bit in Norfolk. I wonder if that's not still in the cards if Mayo sticks at 3B? Mayo = 3B, Henderson = SS, Holliday = 2B, Westburg = everyday utility backing up IF/OF. If O'Hearn can play OF on this team I have no doubt Westburg can with his athleticism. 

Where is the pitching in all of this?

I acknowledge that it is very important to some to have an “all homegrown” lineup because of how important prospects became when the team was terrible/uncompetitive.

But we are playing for banners and trophies now. And acquiring the requisite pitching talent to achieve that goal is very important and trumps using Westburg (a current all-star) out of position or as a backup IMO.

[Matt Bennett]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Moving around IF positions is natural.  Going from being an excellent defensive IFer to completely going out into the OF is unusual and you are doing just to accommodate a 25 year old that you hope is good.

 

That sounds like Mateo in the outfield to me! I suspect we would have seen him alot more in the OF if Ortiz had been kept or Holliday could hit the broadside of a barn, given Mullins' and Cowser's struggles. 

Sounds like Fernando Tatis to me! 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Trading a veteran outfielder makes sense but Mullins being traded would surprise me a little bit.  That leaves Cowser as the everyday CF unless a trade is made? I don't hate the idea of moving Holliday to CF but that would take some time to get him adjusted.

But again, if reports are true, the Os want to add a RH hitting CFer. If you do that, someone has to go unless they think Hays can be that guy. When those reports were out there, Hays couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat, so it’s possible that’s why they felt that way.

But perhaps now, they feel better about it and he can be that guy. But if they don’t feel he can play CF, they still need that bat and if they one, someone(s) has to go.

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Matt Bennett said:

That sounds like Mateo in the outfield to me! I suspect we would have seen him alot more in the OF if Ortiz had been kept or Holliday could hit the broadside of a barn, given Mullins' and Cowser's struggles. 

Sounds like Fernando Tatis to me! 

Mateo isn’t good.  Not sure why you would even mention him. Moving him around is just a way of getting a guy an occasional rest. That’s an apples to oranges comp.

Tatis is a good example but he was moved for a guy they spent a lot of money on (which was really stupid) and I think the shoulder injury had something to do with it as well iirc.

[Matt Bennett]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Mateo isn’t good.  Not sure why you would even mention him.

You said excellent defensive infielder? That doesn't describe Mateo?

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Could be worth the cost if you think he’s a starter long term but he’s so risky. 

For whatever Miller costs, I’d rather have Luis Robert. 

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But again, if reports are true, the Os want to add a RH hitting CFer. If you do that, someone has to go unless they think Hays can be that guy. When those reports were out there, Hays couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat, so it’s possible that’s why they felt that way.

But perhaps now, they feel better about it and he can be that guy. But if they don’t feel he can play CF, they still need that bat and if they one, someone(s) has to go.

 

We could buy and sell at the deadline and be a greeter team. Sell Mountcastle. Bring up Mayo. Sell Mullins. But Luis Robert. 

[Matt Bennett]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Where is the pitching in all of this?

 

In the form of multiple, substantial multi-year free agency additions starting after the 2022 season

Also....again....not knocking the trade. I'm not sure where you read that. Burnes is awesome. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

You said excellent defensive infielder? That doesn't describe Mateo?

He’s not a guy that plays a lot(or shouldn’t). He’s a part timer at best. That’s the larger point with him.

[Matt Bennett]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

He’s not a guy that plays a lot(or shouldn’t). He’s a part timer at best. That’s the larger point with him.

He's a great defensive infielder that hits LHP pretty well and should never see the field against RHP. I never suggested anything otherwise? 

[Safelykept]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We could buy and sell at the deadline and be a greeter team. Sell Mountcastle. Bring up Mayo. Sell Mullins. But Luis Robert. 

Swap Mullins for Robert, You get the RH bat that their rumored to want. How much does he cost in Prospect Capitol< controllable thru 27. Only 26 oft injured but when healthy Hays Plus. Considering  the cost of pitching and this would only make the lineup stronger might be the way to go.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, dystopia said:

A drop off to above average, you mean.

Our FV score from #7 on is 45 or lower. Many other team have more 50 FV rated guys. Obviously they will be rescored the end of this year. 
 

Yankees have 9 at 50 or better..Dodgers have 11.. 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

From our recent past, I’m a fan of going and grabbing a Joe Saunders type or even Scott Feldman type. Both produced pretty well and didn’t cost too much. I’d rather that then spend too much prospect capital when it does seem like often deadline deals can backfire. So this year, it could look like Tyler Anderson or if we didn’t already kick the tires on it last year, Jack Flaherty. There are others as well. 
 

My playoff comment more accurately should have said “start a game in a playoff series” meaning they can slot in as a #3 in the playoffs. I actually don’t think Kremer is too bad of an option either and I’d rather lock things down more in the bullpen, even with all the starter injuries we’ve had. 
 

And then to me it’s a bonus if we get a 2025 year out of the starter acquisition. It looks pretty bleak to start the year right now, but I hope we can just worry about that in the offseason, maybe sign at least one mid level starter with Rubenstein money, and not overpay at the deadline here. 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and share your opinion.

But I disagree fundamentally with just about everything you said.

“Recent history”?? The Joe Saunders and Scott Feldman additions were over a decade ago! Frankly, I don’t want to repeat many things in terms of planning and execution from the 2012- 2018 era. Much of that success seemed so accidental, temporary, and unsustainable because there was no long term vision. Our moves were largely driven by Peter Angelos and Buck Showalter’s desire to get that one championship before time was up for both of them (probably Dan Duquette as well).

This era has been extremely well planned, orchestrated, and executed. Look at the difference in the young talent we have now vs back then.

We have amassed an amazing amount of organizational assets and done a tremendous job of drafting and developing. I argue that we have dynasty level assets.

To me, it makes little to no sense to continue to punt the present opportunities away by repeatedly making marginal moves (like last year), with potential World Series trophies at stake. IMO now is not the time to hedge, but to be begin to be bold. Gunnar, Adley, Westburg etc are too good to waste these years away being ultra cheap/conservative with pitching acquisitions.

Opportunities must be ceased in the lifetime of the opportunity.

[sportsfan8703]

I would sell Mullins to the highest bidder.  Then buy Luis Robert, a Game 3 SP, and a high leverage RP.