Should the Orioles relieve Brandon Hyde of his duties?

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

My comments aren’t necessarily negative towards Hyde. It is directed at whomever makes these decisions. From construction to usage, the pen has been used, in my humble fan and amateur coach opinion, wrong. It is a weakness. We can certainly point to injuries, and my point is that some of these injuries were likely avoidable with less reckless handling. We can talk about the injuries to the starters, and I already addressed that too.

I’m a huge fan of the management. I simply think they need to rebuild and re-evaluate how they deploy these pen assets for more longevity. No matter how good they are, they cannot have any impact on any games from the 60 day IL. Relievers are very volatile, but they should not be throw away pieces.

But you keep referencing other teams like they should be a model for the Orioles when the Orioles have had a better season to date and have in terms of wins have better handled a stretch of injuries and weak play. Not to mention the Orioles are spending close to 150 million less on payroll than the Astros. The Orioles are damn good. 

Edited August 25 by Ohfan67

[Jammer7]

2 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

But you keep referencing other teams like they should be a model for the Orioles when the Orioles have had a better season to date and have in terms of wins have better handled a stretch of injuries and weak play. Not to mention the Orioles are spending close to 150 million less on payroll than the Astros. The Orioles are damn good. 

No, you’re missing the overall point. I completely understood what you wrote, and a fair, but limited point. Over usage isn’t only manifested in injuries, but also in ineffectiveness. How long before Cano is injured? Then what?

It is better to have a guy go longer, maybe an Akin or the like, and not be available for a few days. If you lose that game, so be it. It is a limited impact. When you wear these guys out, you go into prolonged slumps. Sacrifice a few games a year to save many more over time.

As far as other teams being a model, no. I said the Guardians would probably be fun to manage. I said the Astros are a team of grinders who are seemingly more engaged in the dugout. But, hey, we’ve won two in a row so that must not be true. lol

These are not recent observations, nor am I sour about the organization. The roster is flawed, and our youth hurts us at times. The pen management is my main issue with the staff. 

We can disagree here. We’re not getting anywhere with this. All good. I’m done here. 

Edited August 25 by Jammer7

[Ohfan67]

18 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

No, you’re missing the overall point. I completely understood what you wrote, and a fair, but limited point. Over usage isn’t only manifested in injuries, but also in ineffectiveness. How long before Cano is injured? Then what?

It is better to have a guy go longer, maybe an Akin or the like, and not be available for a few days. If you lose that game, so be it. It is a limited impact. When you wear these guys out, you go into prolonged slumps. Sacrifice a few games a year to save many more over time. 

We can disagree here. We’re not getting anywhere with this. All good. I’m done here. 

Among relievers, Cano is 14th in appearances and 64th in innings pitched. In another thread you gushed about Cleveland. They have four relievers who have made more appearances than Cano. Again, I don’t think the data justify some of your critiques of the Orioles. Cano is getting used about how teams use their best bullpen pitchers. Cano is 14th in appearances with 59, but there are 40 pitchers who have made 55 or more appearances. The good relievers get used. This is not an Oriole abberation. 

Edited August 25 by Ohfan67

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Ohfan67 said:

Along relievers, Cano is 14th in appearances and 64th in innings pitched. In another thread you gushed about Cleveland. They have four relievers who have made more appearances than Cano. Again, I don’t think the data justify some of your critiques of the Orioles. Cano is getting used about how teams use their best bullpen pitchers. Cano is 14th in appearances with 59, but there are 40 pitchers who have made 55 or more appearances. The good relievers get used. This is not an Oriole abberation. 

Data, by itself, is certainly not the entire picture. Elias talks about it all the time. The Orioles have recently had some criticism from national commentators, maybe MLB Network?, who said a similar thing. Not that they,  nor me, know more than anyone else. It is a different way of doing things than you seem to like.

We disagree. Have a nice day. 

[Ohfan67]

15 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Data, by itself, is certainly not the entire picture. Elias talks about it all the time. The Orioles have recently had some criticism from national commentators, maybe MLB Network?, who said a similar thing. Not that they,  nor me, know more than anyone else. It is a different way of doing things than you seem to like.

We disagree. Have a nice day. 

If the data don’t fit your opinion, then ignore the data. Got it!

[Jammer7]

15 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

If the data don’t fit your opinion, then ignore the data. Got it!

Nah, there is other data, like wins and losses, that matter more than what you cited. What you cited really means nothing about the performance of the relievers. I have better things to do than continue. I actually agree with several things you said. We disagree on some philosophical things. And then, you write this. Too bad. 

If you just want to troll someone, rock on without me. It was a solid conversation until that. 

Edited August 25 by Jammer7

[Ohfan67]

12 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Nah, there is other data, like wins and losses, that matter more than what you cited. What you cited really means nothing about the performance of the relievers. I have better things to do than continue. I actually agree with several things you said. We disagree on some philosophical things. And then, you write this. Too bad. 

If you just want to troll someone, rock on without me. It was a solid conversation until that. 

I already pointed out that the Orioles have more wins than the Astros and Guardians, the teams you’ve been touting. The Orioles have a great record for a young team that’s gotten hammered by injuries. If you don’t want folks to data check your statements, then don’t post them. You are clearly ignoring data that doesn’t fit your take. I’m not trolling at all. You posted opinions that are based on anecdotes. I posted data that contradicts those opinions. If you think that’s trolling, then this must be your first day on the internet. 

[LGOrioles]

Whatever is going on with the Orioles right now is more than just injuries. Their fundamentals stink, their hitters are all slumping at the same time, they can’t move runners over, and their situational hitting sucks.  

It looks systemic. Regardless of the talent currently on the field, you cannot watch this team right now and say they look well coached. I’m not saying he deserves to be fired, but at the end of the day if they continue looking like this the next month and bow out quickly in the playoffs, I don’t know how you can just run it back next season. They’re talented, but they are a very bad team right now. 

[Safelykept]

56 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

Whatever is going on with the Orioles right now is more than just injuries. Their fundamentals stink, their hitters are all slumping at the same time, they can’t move runners over, and their situational hitting sucks.  

It looks systemic. Regardless of the talent currently on the field, you cannot watch this team right now and say they look well coached. I’m not saying he deserves to be fired, but at the end of the day if they continue looking like this the next month and bow out quickly in the playoffs, I don’t know how you can just run it back next season. They’re talented, but they are a very bad team right now. 

It's really funny how fast poeple forget what bad is. Playoff odds still 99%, which would mean back to back first time since ???. they are still very much in for a second straight Division Title. That happens all the time around here. (last time was 1973, 74) I was in 7th grade, Palmer only had one Cy Young. Talk about a sky is falling post.

[LGOrioles]

5 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

It's really funny how fast poeple forget what bad is. Playoff odds still 99%, which would mean back to back first time since ???. they are still very much in for a second straight Division Title. That happens all the time around here. (last time was 1973, 74) I was in 7th grade, Palmer only had one Cy Young. Talk about a sky is falling post.

This hasn’t been a weeklong or even a month long slump. It’s been 2 months of looking like crap and I’m not talking about the record at all. Hyde can’t control everything (like injuries and unclutch hitting/pitching), but a sloppy team with poor fundamentals is a reflection of the coach/manager. I don’t care about the wins/losses, they look lost right now and it’s his job to manage the clubhouse and get it under control. 
 

[Satyr3206]

I don't see how Hyde could be fired right now. I would definitely evaluate after the Season though.

[Safelykept]

6 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

This hasn’t been a weeklong or even a month long slump. It’s been 2 months of looking like crap and I’m not talking about the record at all. Hyde can’t control everything (like injuries and unclutch hitting/pitching), but a sloppy team with poor fundamentals is a reflection of the coach/manager. I don’t care about the wins/losses, they look lost right now and it’s his job to manage the clubhouse and get it under control. 
 

Again I will repeat some of by previous posts. 2 Months? thats nothing. I have already referenced 1974.(look up their schedule) also 1982, how bout 5 months before they got it going.

[LGOrioles]

1 minute ago, Safelykept said:

Again I will repeat some of by previous posts. 2 Months? thats nothing. I have already referenced 1974.(look up their schedule) also 1982, how bout 5 months before they got it going.

Okay that’s great. Again, I’m not saying anything about the wins or losses. I’m talking about their fundamentals and their defense which have both been awful the last 2 months. And again, there’s no way anyone but the biggest Brandon Hyde supporters could watch this team the last 2 months and say they look well coached.

I’m not saying he should be fired today, but if they continue looking this bad next month and then have an early playoff exit, I don’t see how you can just run it back next year. When you think of the White Sox historically bad season and how you would expect a team with that record to look fundamentally and defensively, the Orioles have looked like that way too often these last 2 months. That is what’s concerning, their record is fine.

[Safelykept]

1 minute ago, LGOrioles said:

Okay that’s great. Again, I’m not saying anything about the wins or losses. I’m talking about their fundamentals and their defense which have both been awful the last 2 months. And again, there’s no way anyone but the biggest Brandon Hyde supporters could watch this team the last 2 months and say they look well coached.

I’m not saying he should be fired today, but if they continue looking this bad next month and then have an early playoff exit, I don’t see how you can just run it back next year. When you think of the White Sox historically bad season and how you would expect a team with that record to look fundamentally and defensively, the Orioles have looked like that way too often these last 2 months. That is what’s concerning, their record is fine.

Not unless you watched the 74 and 82 teams where according to you Weaver lost the clubhouse. Did you even look upthose years?

[LGOrioles]

1 minute ago, Safelykept said:

Not unless you watched the 74 and 82 teams where according to you Weaver lost the clubhouse. Did you even look upthose years?

Do you think the Orioles look like a well coached team right now?