Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?

[webbrick2010]

Since there was a thread to eliminate the field manager, I thought there should be a thread to fire the general manager

In the past 12 months we have gone from a 101 win AL East champion backed up by a AAA champion Norfolk tides and #1 farm system to a team

With Slater, Eloy, Rivera, and Livian Soto on the active roster

Connor Norby (10 game hitting streak), and Kyle Stowers ( 6 RBI's this week), were traded for nothing (and there was near universal agreement that this was a dreadful trade)

The system is heavy on LH hitting prospects

The top prospects (Mayo, Kjerstad) have major defensive short comings

No starting pitching has been drafted in upper rounds, there are zero pitching prospects in the pipeline. Cade Povich who does not have a single ML level pitch is in the rotation.

Jackson Holliday (see Norby trade) was rushed to the majors and is not ready

Team has played bad fundamental baseball for most of 2024 but Hyde remains in dugout

2025 looks bleak with the need for at least 3SP's, and several bullpen arms

I was willing to give the draft the bats, trade for the arms approach a chance but the ML wide shortage of pitching has made this approach and Elias a failure.

Time to move on.

 

 

[Safelykept]

4 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Since there was a thread to eliminate the field manager, I thought there should be a thread to fire the general manager

In the past 12 months we have gone from a 101 win AL East champion backed up by a AAA champion Norfolk tides and #1 farm system to a team

With Slater, Eloy, Rivera, and Livian Soto on the active roster

Connor Norby (10 game hitting streak), and Kyle Stowers ( 6 RBI's this week), were traded for nothing (and there was near universal agreement that this was a dreadful trade)

The system is heavy on LH hitting prospects

The top prospects (Mayo, Kjerstad) have major defensive short comings

No starting pitching has been drafted in upper rounds, there are zero pitching prospects in the pipeline. Cade Povich who does not have a single ML level pitch is in the rotation.

Jackson Holliday (see Norby trade) was rushed to the majors and is not ready

Team has played bad fundamental baseball for most of 2024 but Hyde remains in dugout

2025 looks bleak with the need for at least 3SP's, and several bullpen arms

I was willing to give the draft the bats, trade for the arms approach a chance but the ML wide shortage of pitching has made this approach and Elias a failure.

Time to move on.

 

 

I think they should try to trade him, before moving on from him.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

LOL, of course not.

What a silly thread.

[Spakman]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

LOL, of course not.

What a silly thread.

Yeah obviously not gonna happen but you can’t really argue with anything that he wrote.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The dumbest and most uneducated thread in the history of OH.

Better thread idea: Should webbrick be allowed to post on this site?

Yup. Rubenstein needs to open up his wallet. 

[Orioles0615]

I am not the biggest fan of Elias, but I am going to go with a hard no. 

 

I am waiting for the fire the hitting coaches post though 

[toughbuff1]

20 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Since there was a thread to eliminate the field manager, I thought there should be a thread to fire the general manager

In the past 12 months we have gone from a 101 win AL East champion backed up by a AAA champion Norfolk tides and #1 farm system to a team

With Slater, Eloy, Rivera, and Livian Soto on the active roster

Connor Norby (10 game hitting streak), and Kyle Stowers ( 6 RBI's this week), were traded for nothing (and there was near universal agreement that this was a dreadful trade)

The system is heavy on LH hitting prospects

The top prospects (Mayo, Kjerstad) have major defensive short comings

No starting pitching has been drafted in upper rounds, there are zero pitching prospects in the pipeline. Cade Povich who does not have a single ML level pitch is in the rotation.

Jackson Holliday (see Norby trade) was rushed to the majors and is not ready

Team has played bad fundamental baseball for most of 2024 but Hyde remains in dugout

2025 looks bleak with the need for at least 3SP's, and several bullpen arms

I was willing to give the draft the bats, trade for the arms approach a chance but the ML wide shortage of pitching has made this approach and Elias a failure.

Time to move on.

 

 

JLC?

[interloper]

Lol

[LookitsPuck]

Good lord, no. What an absolutely cockamamie post.

[gtman55]

7 minutes ago, Orioles0615 said:

I am not the biggest fan of Elias, but I am going to go with a hard no. 

 

I am waiting for the fire the hitting coaches post though 

You beat me to it. Three pitching coaches that apparently don't have a clue how to make adjustments.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The dumbest and most uneducated thread in the history of OH.

Better thread idea: Should webbrick be allowed to post on this site?

I vote "yes," but only because I enjoy watching him embarrass himself every single time he clicks the "Submit Reply" button.

[Sports Guy]

A better question to ask is, what needs to be done for Elias to improve on his “blind spots”?

[Tony-OH]

The simple answer is no.  

This team has been decimated by starting pitching injuries and the team is still in a battle to win the division despite the fact it has played so poorly since late June. 

Now, saying that, do I have questions about things on how Elias and his staff does things? Absolutely.

I've been a vocal opponent of his draft strategy of not drafting pitching very high which is why the system is barren of help right now. I'm also not convinced despite the technologies they use, that they develop players and pitchers all that well. I've certainly detailed my concerns with their drafting and development of pitching in multiple posts.

Think about this, Elias has spent a lot of draft capital drafting college hitters since 2019, yet this team still has Eloy Jimenez and Austin Slater getting PAs during a pennant drive?

We've seen multiple rookies come up and just out right stink. Not struggle a bit, but have historically bad starts to their major league careers and it makes me wonder if the hitting approach taught is something sustainable at the major league level. 

We've seen Elias bury players like Ortiz and Westburg (for half a season) last year, and Norby over the last few years, only to see them success once given an opportunity at the major league level. 

Norby, who always had a major league bat, is hitting well for the Marlins, but the worse part is they've converted him to 3B where he's done pretty well. The Orioles tried to shoehorn him to 2B where he was never a good fit and then gave him some outfield time, but barely ever gave him 3B reps. Why? Yes, I know Mayo is playing there, but Mayo continues to struggle with his throwing so why is he still at 3B when you have Westburg already playing 3B? 

None of it makes any sense. Urias has been a disaster at 3B this season defensively so would the team be worse right now with Norby at 3B and Urias at 2B and Holliday back in AAA trying to get better? 

But Norby was sent away with Stowers (who has struggled but I still think will find a major league role) for Trevor Rogers, who's stuff was shockingly bad before getting sent to AAA where he's struggled.

Now, that trade looks awful right now, but the bigger issue is not perhaps developing Norby correctly and making the wrong assessment on his bat. Norby has spent the last two and half years telling Elias that he was ready for major league pitching, so why was he playing positions that he was blocked at, and never going to be good at? 

Now, saying that, the Eflin trade as well as the Phillies trade are looking good (Go look at what Soto has done in his last 6 outings), but the reliance on AAA opt out and waiver claims for a contending team is a little concerning, and tells us about the true depth of his upper levels. 

So yes, that's a lot of negatives, but the results are what matter. A lot has gone wrong this season with Bradish, Means, and Wells being lost for the season along with Coulombe, Webb, Westburg, Grayson and even Mateo being lost for good bits of the season. That's a lot of guys expected to contribute this season in major roles. 

I believe Elias has absolutely done an amazing job of turning this organization around. He absolutely has led this franchise from being a joke to being what looks like an annual contender. Are their warts that are starting to show a bit? Yes. Has he shown he can put a team on the field that can go deep into the playoffs? Not yet. 

We also don't know what he can do with an offseason of having an owner that should spend money. 

Am I saying that it's valid to be critical of some areas of the organization? I do.

Am I ready to say he should go? Absolutely not. 

 

 

[webbrick2010]

I am somewhat shocked by the support of Elias, so perhaps I can take another approach

Does/will  the draft the bats buy/trade for the pitchers approach work?

Is the O's roster in 2024 stronger than 2023?

Has Elias made effective/sufficient trades in the offseason or at the trade deadlines to move the O's closer to a WS

Does the Orioles system have a defense problem?

Has it been a mistake to not draft pitchers in the upper rounds?

Does a GM have any accountability for a system that all but the High A team are significantly below .500

Is the only path forward to a championship team for Rubenstein to open up his wallet and the O's to outbid others for the scarcity of pitching? Will that work?

and

What specifically has Elias done a good job of? Drafting?, Trading?, giving interviews?

 

[Satyr3206]

Getting rid of Elias would be beyond stupid. No one is right all of the time.