Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Baseball fandom said:

Personally I liked Fredde

But you don’t know that the WS want 2 older prospects for him. You don’t know if they like those players. You also don’t know if the Os like Fedde or buy into what he would be for the rest of the year (he hasn’t been that good btw) or if he can be good in 2025.

[Baseball fandom]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I read what Tony wrote, and it's good.  I agree with it.

I also read the part where he and SG said that Elias is the most important thing to happen to this franchise in the last 25 years.  IMO, he's easily the most important thing that's happened to this franchise in the past 30+ years...going back to the opening of Camden Yards.  

He's not without faults, that's for sure.  But after having watched this franchise since the late 80s and perpetually having a barren farm system and hardly any young talent to get excited about and to build around, this is essentially what I and others have been waiting for.  

The part that I really agree with Tony about was Elias was great for the rebuild but will he be the guy to get them over the top. Time will tell. 

[Spy Fox]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

You can agree to disagree...but the Rogers trade really isn't a hill to die on, either.  It's not the trade to judge Elias on.  And if you want to judge Elias and hold that trade above anything/everything else like it's some kind of trump card...well, I think you'd be one of a few doing that.

Prepare for it to be used as a trump card, until either Rogers pitches well for the O's, or both Stowers/Norby flame out for Miami.

Unless we win the World Series this fall. In which case it will be put on ice for 8 months until next June when the O's have a 1-5 week so Elias should be fired again. 

[samm]

1 hour ago, Sammy Seagull said:

Good thought, but first Hyde must be dismissed before Labor Day. Turn the team over to Fredi for remainder of 2024 and bring up Britton in 2025.

 I'm not afraid to tell people 'I like men!'

[Baseball fandom]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

But you don’t know that the WS want 2 older prospects for him. You don’t know if they like those players. You also don’t know if the Os like Fedde or buy into what he would be for the rest of the year (he hasn’t been that good btw) or if he can be good in 2025.

I hope it's that the Sox didn't like the older prospects because in no way could the Orioles see Rogers stuff and think it's better than Freede. Even Tony has mentioned how he was surprised at  how poor Rogers stuff has looked. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Baseball fandom said:

I hope it's that the Sox didn't like the older prospects because in no way could the Orioles see Rogers stuff and think it's better than Freede. Even Tony has mentioned how he was surprised at  how poor Rogers stuff has looked. 

Stuff isn’t the only reason to rate a pitcher. 

Until this season, Fedde had never had close to the success Rogers had at this level.

Rogers was also pitching very well when the Os got him.

This is all reactionary bs. There is no logic being used. No intelligence. No history. Just a few starts, which weren’t as bad as the numbers say.  
 

It’s so maddening how people still can’t figure out how small sample sizes mean nothing but yet they get fooled by them ALL THE TIME.

[LookitsPuck]

2 hours ago, Baseball fandom said:

I edit.

Yes if you think he's great that's your opinion. I think he is good not great. I stand by that.  I will say this it will be interesting in seeing what he does with support of ownership with deeper pockets. I just hope for no more Norby for Rogers trade that any of us "at the end of bar" fan wouldn't had made let alone an established GM should have. 

The Norby for Rogers trade felt so desperate it immediately made me think of trading for Parra and giving away Davies that Duquette royally flubbed.

I’m a huge proponent of Elias, but that trade was  indefensible at the time and even more so now. 

Edited August 30 by LookitsPuck

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Cool.

We have Rogers for 2025 and 2026 though, and I suspect his acquisition had a lot more to do with those years than this year. 

He was clearly a reclamation project rather than a pure "win now" move. It's crazy to me how few people seem to realize this.

It’s an asinine move when the club desperately need a 5th starter *this year* not a reclamation project with severe questions around injuries, velocity, and stuff. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 hour ago, Baseball fandom said:

In a pennant rafe they needed a guy who can help them this year not a wing and prayer for next year. Chances are every bit as good if not better that he can't be repaired. As they say some the best trades are the ones that are never made. 

The really smart and successful professional baseball people who actually get a say in what moves the Orioles make seem to be pretty confident that Rogers can be fixed, otherwise they would not have beat out the multiple other teams who were also reported to be bidding on him to complete the deal.

[LookitsPuck]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Stuff isn’t the only reason to rate a pitcher. 

Until this season, Fedde had never had close to the success Rogers had at this level.

Rogers was also pitching very well when the Os got him.

This is all reactionary bs. There is no logic being used. No intelligence. No history. Just a few starts, which weren’t as bad as the numbers say.  
 

It’s so maddening how people still can’t figure out how small sample sizes mean nothing but yet they get fooled by them ALL THE TIME.

None of the advanced stats backed up that the smoke and mirrors Rogers was throwing was sustainable. The changes made while out of the country, and the advanced stats for Fedde show what he was/is doing is sustainable (at least for this year). Fedde also wasn’t a rental, so this is a really glaring misstep by Elias. If he acquired another SP and Rogers? I wouldn’t have been whining about it so much. But he rolled the dice on a broken pitcher this year for what might never come next year. That’s fine to do in the middle of a rebuild, but woefully irresponsible in the middle of a pennant chase.

Look at the other clubs pickups: Kikuchi, Flaherty, Fedde. And then there’s Rogers. Yeah, Eflin was a big hit, but we can also say that he missed on Rogers.

Edited August 30 by LookitsPuck

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

It’s an asinine move when the club desperately need a 5th starter *this year* not a reclamation project with severe questions around injuries, velocity, and stuff. 

Eflin was the win now move.

Anyway, why do you need a 5th starter in the playoffs? We would have needed someone better than one of Burnes, Grayson, Eflin, and Suarez/Kremer. You might not even need more than three if you go short rest.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

6 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

It’s an asinine move when the club desperately need a 5th starter *this year* not a reclamation project with severe questions around injuries, velocity, and stuff. 

In your opinion.

I happen to disagree, as does Mike Elias.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Anyway, why do you need a 5th starter in the playoffs?

You don't, but never let facts get in the way of rageposting lol.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Baseball fandom said:

In a pennant rafe they needed a guy who can help them this year not a wing and prayer for next year. Chances are every bit as good if not better that he can't be repaired. As they say some the best trades are the ones that are never made. 

We have a 99% chance to make the playoffs with Rogers in AAA. A better starter might have given us a slightly better chance to win the division. But it wouldn't be guaranteed, and winning the division doesn't guarantee you will go deep in the playoffs, as we saw last year. Some even thought the playoff hurt us.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

No one's acting like he's the greatest thing since whatever, that's just silly and hyperbole.

I just want to say that I do think Elias is the greatest thing since whatever.

I don’t really know what “since whatever” means, but I was born in 1985 and can say that no individual who has joined this organization since then has made the kind of impact Elias has made. Not even close.

That doesn’t mean I’m saying he’s perfect or flawless, which is where the silly hyperbole part comes in. Just because I think Elias is great doesn’t mean I believe he never errs or is beyond questioning. There are moves that I don’t understand — I’m as puzzled as everyone about never taking pitchers in the draft, and I’m very concerned about the struggles we continue to have with the AAA kids coming up to the bigs and being terrible.

But then I lose the microscope and zoom out to see the big picture. In 2018, we won 47 games and the cupboard was very nearly bare. It’s 2024, we have a 100 win season under our belts and now we’re all pulling our hair out because we’re not running away with the “best record in baseball” crown. It’s September, we’re 20 games over .500, we’re like a game back of the Yankees for the division lead, we’ve got like 99% playoff odds — and everyone is MISERABLE about it. The standard is so different and the bar has been raised so much that it’s shocking. 

And it’s so much more even than the play on the MLB field. It’s about the total overhaul they’ve done in terms of drafting, development, analytics, creating an honest-to-God international presence. This franchise has gone from decades behind the times to being probably a consensus top 5 best-run organization in the sport. In 6 years. That’s wild. 

So while I appreciate your responses in this post and throughout this thread, Moose, I’m going to undercut you on this one. I do think Elias is the greatest thing since whatever, and I’m 100% willing to be flamed for that. I find it absolutely befuddling that a thread like this even exists.