This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I guess my question is whether this is indicative of an issue with development — or just another way of saying they don’t draft pitchers.

From 2019-2022, they drafted 3 pitchers in the top 5 rounds, and all of them were 5th rounders (Baumler, Tavera, Bright). They’ve taken another 5 pitchers during that span from rounds 6-10. 

What’s the league-wide success rate on pitching picks in that range? Is it demonstrably poor draft/development performance to have only gotten one fringy ML reliever (Gillispie) from 8 picks between rounds 5 and 10 by now?

Or is it moreso just an issue of taking so few pitchers? I don’t know the answer to this, just posing the question I think has to be answered to refine the concern.

Curiously, two young pitchers having breakout 2nd halves for the Astros, Hunter Brown and Spencer Arrighetti, were picked in the 5th and 6th rounds but each throws mid 90’s.  Not sure what their  velocity was when drafted.

[MCO'sFan]

I don't think the SSS success of these two pitchers means anything when trying to evaluate the O's pitching development. Bradish was a 4th rounder whose development was predominately by the O's. Here is a guy from this year that the O's picked up and have done a seemingly good job of developing. Left-hander Tucker Davidson, an offseason waiver claim from the Royals, struck out eight in seven innings of two-run ball Wednesday against Jacksonville to continue a very good season in the Norfolk rotation. He has a 3.61 ERA, a 1.27 WHIP, and 94 strikeouts in 99 2/3 innings.

 

 

[yark14]

Favoring spin rates and velo over outcomes has it's consequences.  Just look at the number of our pitchers on the IL.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

This wasn't really intended as why did we give these guys up.  More like why didn't we get them to perform like this?

You have to give something to get something.  No problem. 

Also, it’s not like Baumeister and Chace were doing poorly with us.  They were doing pretty well, just not as well as they’ve done since they were traded.   It’s not like we didn’t know they were talented.  

I wonder if Tampa fans are wringing their hands over the fact that Eflin has a 1.95 ERA as an Oriole, or if Philly fans are bothered that Soto is now on a streak of 9 straight scoreless outings.   
 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

To me the best part is that Elias admits they don't have evidence that their approach reduces injury.

Well we know so far this approach hasn't developed major league pitching and pitchers still are on the IL all over the org.

[EdwinRip]

You would think this team is dead last in baseball when reading this thread.

[oriolediehard]

8 hours ago, Ripken said:

SSS for sure but the O's lack of pitcher development is still really frustrating.  I have never agreed with the lack of pitcher drafting, lower pitch counts, refusal to transition some prospects to the pen or the obsession with making a guy try to master 6 different pitches.  Other orgs (certainly TB) appear to be much better at those things.  

What does SSS mean?

[LookitsPuck]

10 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

What does SSS mean?

Small Sample Size

[Osornot]

4 hours ago, EdwinRip said:

You would think this team is dead last in baseball when reading this thread.

I just realized that I have been on here A LOT less in the past month or so.  It has been too over the top.  Fire this, fire that, players suck, development sucks, GM sucks, manager sucks.. Heck, even the broadcasters suck.  Oh and don't forget that Roy Firestone sucks because he likes a kid that he has gotten to know.  The life gets sucked out of you.

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well we know so far this approach hasn't developed major league pitching and pitchers still are on the IL all over the org.

We developed Bradish, Grayson, DL Hall, Wells, and Bautista under Elias. Kremer was at least partially under Elias. I agree, we've had our share of injuries, although more so this year than up until now. 

[HowAboutThat]

@spiritof66makes an excellent point, that drafting position players to trade for pitching isn’t very useful when you end up also trading the few pitching prospects you have.

I have said constantly that dumpster diving is valuable, but it’s also impossible to succeed when you don’t do anything else.

I don’t care where they get pitching, although I would prefer they not sign aging and declining free agents and hope they will return to glory.

If your position player prospects are not adequate to get the pitching you need, then it’s not a workable strategy.

I have also always detested “one size fits all” approach to coaching, but I don’t know that’s what they are doing.

It certainly remains to be seen whether the guys we have lost will turn into something meaningful, but they apparently have turned in to something better, and that warrants scrutiny.

[Yossarian]

Speaking of Stowers - he is heating up for Miami over the last 7 games.   Good for him. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/kyle-stowers-hits-3-run-home-run-marlins-win-series-giants

[OriolesMagic83]

6 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Speaking of Stowers - he is heating up for Miami over the last 7 games.   Good for him. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/kyle-stowers-hits-3-run-home-run-marlins-win-series-giants

There was no spot for Stowers here.  I hope he's able to make the most of his shot in Miami.  He had a rough start, but things seem to be looking up for him there.

[accinfo]

45 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

@spiritof66makes an excellent point, that drafting position players to trade for pitching isn’t very useful when you end up also trading the few pitching prospects you have.

I have said constantly that dumpster diving is valuable, but it’s also impossible to succeed when you don’t do anything else.

I don’t care where they get pitching, although I would prefer they not sign aging and declining free agents and hope they will return to glory.

If your position player prospects are not adequate to get the pitching you need, then it’s not a workable strategy.

I have also always detested “one size fits all” approach to coaching, but I don’t know that’s what they are doing.

It certainly remains to be seen whether the guys we have lost will turn into something meaningful, but they apparently have turned in to something better, and that warrants scrutiny.

Yes this management has run this team right into the ground.  

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Osornot said:

I just realized that I have been on here A LOT less in the past month or so.  It has been too over the top.  Fire this, fire that, players suck, development sucks, GM sucks, manager sucks.. Heck, even the broadcasters suck.  Oh and don't forget that Roy Firestone sucks because he likes a kid that he has gotten to know.  The life gets sucked out of you.

Ummmm the broadcasters DO suck…