Hyde Hot Seat

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Can’t change the players. It is what it is. I like Hyder.  Someone has to be the fall guy. 

This is such a FM afternoon drive sports talk radio take.  C'mon, he guides a team in 2022 that had no business finishing over .500 into an 83 win season, they win the division last year and all of that is wiped out by a bad couple months?

This whole thing is silly.  "Fire the manager" is one of the dumbest hot takes in a society filled with dumb sports-related hot takes.  Sometimes it's warranted but in this case it ain't.  

I get it, everyone's pissed, everyone's upset, everyone wants a "fall guy" or a whipping boy or someone to blame for this.  But this is baseball, the injuries are too severe to overcome and the supposed stud rookies aren't close to being ready.  "Fire the manager" doesn't do anything to alleviate any of those things.

Go find a fall guy somewhere else.

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is such a FM afternoon drive sports talk radio take.  C'mon, he guides a team in 2022 that had no business finishing over .500 into an 83 win season, they win the division last year and all of that is wiped out by a bad couple months?

This whole thing is silly.  "Fire the manager" is one of the dumbest hot takes in a society filled with dumb sports-related hot takes.  Sometimes it's warranted but in this case it ain't.  

I get it, everyone's pissed, everyone's upset, everyone wants a "fall guy" or a whipping boy or someone to blame for this.  But this is baseball, the injuries are too severe to overcome and the supposed stud rookies aren't close to being ready.  "Fire the manager" doesn't do anything to alleviate any of those things.

Go find a fall guy somewhere else.

That’s your opinion. In the other thread you said you’re worried that we’re witnessing an all time collapse. You can’t have an all time collapse and not make a change. 

I really like Hyde, but if we indeed do finish this collapse, then something has to change. Can’t change the players.

Even if we do cling to a playoff spot, would even winning a wildcard series save Hyde’s job for 2025?   

Edited 23 hours ago by sportsfan8703

[Otter]

No, Hyde shouldn't be in the hot seat right now.  He isn't responsible for injuries, poor performances, having to play AAAA guys, or the lack of pitching depth in the organization.  If we collapse the rest of the way, and then don't make the playoffs next year then yes he should be on the hot seat.  But to be honest, Elias should be more on the hot seat than Hyde....he's the one who relied on pitchers with serious injury concerns/risk such as Means, Bradish, Wells.  He's the one who has ignored pitching at the top of the draft, and hasn't drafted and developed even one major league pitcher in his tenure.  And the hitters he has drafted/acquired have performed horribly.  That being said, I don't think Elias should be on the hot seat either...he still deserves the benefit of the doubt and a couple more years to correct some of the issues we're seeing now.

The development of organizations and individual players isn't always a linear process...there will be bumps along the way, so let's see how Hyde and Elias right the ship...

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

That’s your opinion. In the other thread you said you’re worried that we’re witnessing an all time collapse. You can’t have an all time collapse and not make a change. 

I really like Hyde, but if we indeed do finish this collapse, then something has to change. Can’t change the players. 

Sure you can.

If it weren't for the injuries and everyone was healthy and the rookies were playing like they belonged and they were STILL this bad, I'd be calling for his head, too.

That's not the case though, is it?  Why's Kevin Cash still have his job in Tampa?

[Frobby]

Hyde is not on the hot seat now.  I think if the team plays the first half of next year like it’s played the second half of this one, he’ll be on the hot seat then.  Hopefully that doesn’t happen.  

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

That’s your opinion. In the other thread you said you’re worried that we’re witnessing an all time collapse. You can’t have an all time collapse and not make a change. 

I really like Hyde, but if we indeed do finish this collapse, then something has to change. Can’t change the players.

Even if we do cling to a playoff spot, would even winning a wildcard series save Hyde’s job for 2025?   

Hyde isn’t going anywhere.   He’s the manager to start next season.   It’s pretty simple.

[sportsfan8703]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sure you can.

If it weren't for the injuries and everyone was healthy and the rookies were playing like they belonged and they were STILL this bad, I'd be calling for his head, too.

That's not the case though, is it?  Why's Kevin Cash still have his job in Tampa?

What’s the excuse for the hitting?  Hyde said after the Marlins series in Miami that this team has been talked to about giving ABs away with a lead. 

So it’s obvious that Hyde can’t get through to them. I like Hyde. But you can’t change the players. So you gotta change the guy giving them the message. The message from the manager ain’t working. 

Also, it’s never really the manager’s fault. Someone just has to be the fall guy. That’s how life works. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

What’s the excuse for the hitting?  Hyde said after the Marlins series in Miami that this team has been talked to about giving ABs away with a lead. 

So it’s obvious that Hyde can’t get through to them. I like Hyde. But you can’t change the players. So you gotta change the guy giving them the message. The message from the manager ain’t working. 

Also, it’s never really the manager’s fault. Someone just has to be the fall guy. That’s how life works. 

No one has to be a fall guy. That’s Carolina Panthers stuff…that’s how you get a poor org.

They just need to be better and do more in the offseason.

 

[sportsfan8703]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Hyde isn’t going anywhere.   He’s the manager to start next season.   It’s pretty simple.

I hope so. But it’s not a guarantee and other people can have a differing of opinion. I wish we weren’t here. But we are where we are. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I hope so. But it’s not a guarantee and other people can have a differing of opinion. I wish we weren’t here. But we are where we are. 

I guarantee it.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

What’s the excuse for the hitting?  Hyde said after the Marlins series in Miami that this team has been talked to about giving ABs away with a lead. 

So it’s obvious that Hyde can’t get through to them. I like Hyde. But you can’t change the players. So you gotta change the guy giving them the message. The message from the manager ain’t working. 

Also, it’s never really the manager’s fault. Someone just has to be the fall guy. That’s how life works. 

What's the excuse for the hitting, are you serious?

Cowser strikes out all the time, he's not a polished product.

Holliday is an automatic out.  

Mayo is an automatic out.

If you're doing the math, that's about 9 outs a game right there between those three.

O'Hearn is a platoon guy, he's playing more than he should.

Tony's prone to hellacious slumps that are on the other end of the spectrum from his amazing hot streaks.

Slater's decent against lefties, not much else.

Adley's not great this year.

Jimenez is a joke.

So as it stands right now, you've got two guys in the everyday lineup that look like competent hitters in Gunnar and Mullins.

And you ask what's the excuse for the hitting?  Half these guys aren't ready, the others aren't great players and/or can go on extended cold streaks like Tony.

What, you thought a stern talking-to was going to make Cowser stop striking out?

[SteveA]

57 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Can’t fire the players. Something has to change. We’ve been terrible offensively since the Yankees game where we put up 15. 

If we started the season like this, Hyde would have gotten fired. I think he’s gone in the offseason, unless we turn things around. 

I hope we turn it around. If not, we’ll need to bring in a Dusty Baker/Ron Washington type. 

If we made a change, we would not be bringing in a Dusty Baker / Ron Washington type (super old school).   Elias isn't going to hire someone who isn't on board with all his modern methods.   No Dusty, no Showalter.   Count on it.

[LGOrioles]

9 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

I am sick of the injuries excuse to his about we get back to full strength and then see.  Injuries are not the excuse they are the reason.  We are missing 4 guys from the rotatation most who were missed for the season or very large chucks.  3/4 of the infield has missed the last month or so when the offense tailed off it was fine til August.    The offense was still chugging along through August without Westburg.  It wasn’t as good as it was but still was averaging 4.45 runs a game which is middle of the pack which isn’t bad when you lose one of your top hitters.   Then they lost Mountcastle and Urias and that caused 2 new holes in the lineup.  The offense held its own through the White Sox and Rockies series but those teams are bad.  However with 3 huge holes in the lineup the last 10 games the offense is averaging 2 runs a game but yep it not the injuries it is the manager.  

Even with those injuries though, they shouldn’t be nearly as bad as they have been. Sure, they are going to affect the team as a whole, but they’re 35-42 in their last 77 games. Only Colorado, Washington, LAA, Miami, and CHW have a worse record in that time frame. Their minus 52 run differential in those 77 games pro rates to minus 109 over a full season. Only LAA, Miami, Colorado, and CHW are on pace for a run differential that low on the season. Nobody is saying they should still be on pace for 100 wins with the injuries they have had, but they have been just about a bottom 5 team in the MLB the last 3 months. There’s zero excuse for them to be this bad.

The offensive excuses are again also extremely over blown. Mountcastle had a .680 OPS his last 334 PA’s when healthy and has missed less than a month. Urias had a .673 OPS on August 8th and was worth 0 WAR up to that point - he also has only missed a few weeks. Westburg clearly hurts, but Rivera has arguably been their best hitter since he was acquired and Slater has been an above average producer as well. They’ve been bad because after that series in NY, Gunnar went from an 11 WAR superstar to a 6 WAR all star, Rutschman went from a 6 WAR catcher to replacement level, O’Hearn went from a 130 wRC+ hitter to a 90 wRC+ hitter, Mountcastle went from a 126 wRC+ to a 75 wRC+ when healthy, and Westburg went from a 137 wRC+ to a 111 wRC+ when healthy too. Gunnar, Adley, O’Hearn, and Mountcastle were on pace for roughly 23 WAR through that NYY series and have paced at about 8 WAR since. That difference alone is equal to the difference between the Diamondbacks position player WAR (tops in the MLB) and SFG’s (18th).

Injuries have certainly been a factor, but for a drop off this bad, they’re an excuse not the reason. 

[SteveA]

48 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ron Washington, really?  

Something has to change.  What, change for change's sake?

Tell me, would changing managers stop Mayo from looking like a complete joke at the plate?  Would changing managers get Holliday to all of a sudden look competent at the plate.  Would changing managers get Jimenez to actually hit the ball...and when he hits it, hit it in the air?  Would changing managers stop Cowser from being an automatic strikeout?  Would changing managers wake Tony up from his slump?  Would changing managers have made Adley have a good month of August and hit like an all-star?  Would changing managers make Kimbrel look like a Hall of Fame closer?

What's changing a manager gonna do?

You make a very persuasive argument for changing hitting coaches.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, SteveA said:

You make a very persuasive argument for changing hitting coaches.

That's fine.