Meoli on the 1st base situation

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, 1fingerwillie said:

What else can Mayo possibly do at AAA? 

Nothing.

The only reason to put him down in AAA is to avoid him being the majors because he looked bad in 46 PA. That’s it. That’s the only thing people can come up with.

And spare me the idea he needs to go to AAA to learn how to play first. He has the offseason and ST for that. 

[Safelykept]

18 minutes ago, 1fingerwillie said:

What else can Mayo possibly do at AAA? 

Learn a position.

[LookitsPuck]

I think 2024 showed how tricky the "Platoon Every Position" strategy can be when you have rookies and injuries. With the rookies, you never give them opportunities to hit the same side pitching if they're constantly being PH hit for (Kjerstad, Holliday, Mayo even). And in the event somebody gets hurt (example: Mountcastle) you're stuck with a poor defending infielder that puts your infield defense at risk and you're vulnerable against their weak side pitching. 

I do think you can get away with *some* platoons, but last year was way, way, way too heavy on platooning. 

All that said, the O's are in a pretty weird spot.  Here are their stats  (minimum 40 PA) at home, against lefties from 2024:

1. Mateo - 333 AVG, 1.010 OPS
2. Mountcastle - 346, 971
3. Santander - 250, 926
4. Westburg - 277, 857
5. Adley - 303, 818
6. Gunnar - 246, 764
7. Cowser - 200, 585
8. Mullins - 205, 489

Pretty easy to say why there was a dramatic dropoff in performance last year against lefties (Mateo, Mounty, Westy) all were hurt in the second half. Meaning it was Santander and Adley (and we know Adley fell off in the second half). Gunnar fell off a cliff in the second half.

Now let's look at our hitters against RHP at home (minimum 40 PA):

1. Gunnar - 309, 961
2. Westy - 312, 903
3. Mullins - 263, 880
4. Cowser - 263, 809
5. Urias - 245, 733
6. O'Hearn - 249, 698
7. Santander - 207, 697
8. Mountcastle - 244, 679
9. Adley - 195, 616
10. Holliday - 176, 495

So, the Elias strategy of focusing on LHH, SHH to take advantage of left field at Camden Yards works...until it doesn't. Gunnar, Westy (very good against LHH and RHH at homE), Cowser all Elias picks, and very good to excellent against righties at home. Awesome. Mullins was definitely valuable. But man, 6-10 is incredibly glaring. Santander was lackluster against righties at home. We can see that O'Hearn wasn't better than Mountcastle at home against righties, supposedly his specialty. And I wonder if it's because he likes to hit opposite field and the vast caverns of LF at OPACY had a lot of doubles/dingers taken from him. 

But, man, Adley was nearly as bad as Holliday against righties, and that's not acceptable. 

So, they definitely need Adley and Holliday to do infinitely better against righties. But they need more production from 1B/RF against righties as well. 

[Moose Milligan]

34 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

It's not that we have to have a great hitter there, but we would need someone better than Adley, who has 13 WAR there in 3 years with his current load. I don't see Elias spending on a full time C when we have Adley with Basallo coming. I'm not even convinced any of those options would be an improvement over Adley. Yes, if Adley's second half is the new normal, then that is unacceptable. But I want to see how he looks after an offseason of rest and conditioning before completely giving up on him as C. That would be crazy reactionary imo. 

That's fine, but you're acting like I'm just focusing on Adley's 2nd half of 2024 as my argument for moving him off catcher.

Once again, his OPS as a DH is .119 points higher than it is as a catcher over the course of his entire career.  

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

What's the downside of moving him off catcher?

He's not an elite defender.  I haven't checked the stats but I know some posters here really take issue with his pitch framing skills.

The bat has been anywhere from bad to average to fairly decent at catcher when it's been stronger consistently as a DH.

If you're so opposed to the idea of moving him off catcher, it's based on emotion and not logic.  Overall career numbers at DH are better...even hoisting up 2023 like it's some kind of a win, his OPS was almost .100 points better as a DH.

It's based on Elias and the Orioles are not  moving Adley off 1st after he was their 1:1.   I just don't see them doing that.

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

It's based on Elias and the Orioles are not  moving Adley off 1st after he was their 1:1.   I just don't see them doing that.

If they're slaves to the fact that he was the 1:1 pick in 2019, then that's a problem.

 

[casadeozo]

Outlets like the Banner have a very old school approach what makes a winning team. 
 

One of the best reporters tried to make the case for Santander as the team MVP. 
 

certainly Mayos production during his time in the majors wasn’t awe inspiring, but they seem to ignore how flawed of a hitter Mountcastle.

sure he is a good to very good defender, but I’d much rather have a good to very good hitter and below average defender. His egregious swing and miss and aggressive approach is an aspect of this team I will not miss. 

[Aristotelian]

29 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's fine, but you're acting like I'm just focusing on Adley's 2nd half of 2024 as my argument for moving him off catcher.

Once again, his OPS as a DH is .119 points higher than it is as a catcher over the course of his entire career.  

Are you saying if Adley maintained his 5+ annual WAR from '22-23 you would still be calling to push him off C? Maybe you aren't just focusing on that but I don't remember you calling for it until now. 

What's best for Adley's splits isn't necessarily what's best for the team. Even if he continues to hit at DH, would he put up 4 WAR there?

You also have to consider that the C/DH split is non-independent of the platoon split. He has been mashing lefties as a DH the last two years but it may not follow that he would mash righties as a DH. It might but I would take a more gradual approach with my star player. 

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Are you saying if Adley maintained his 5+ annual WAR from '22-23 you would still be calling to push him off C? Maybe you aren't just focusing on that but I don't remember you calling for it until now. 

What's best for Adley's splits isn't necessarily what's best for the team. Even if he continues to hit at DH, would he put up 4 WAR there?

You also have to consider that the C/DH split is non-independent of the platoon split. He has been mashing lefties as a DH the last two years but it may not follow that he would mash righties as a DH. It might but I would take a more gradual approach with my star player. 

 

 

Ok, you win.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, 1fingerwillie said:

What else can Mayo possibly do at AAA? 

Get more experience playing 1B.

[Aristotelian]

24 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ok, you win.

I get it. Adley was a huge disappointment in the second half. You may be right in the long term.

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I get it. Adley was a huge disappointment in the second half. You may be right in the long term.

I think my stance on Adley's overall career was pretty clear.  You're harping on his second half, which I have not harped on.

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Nothing.

The only reason to put him down in AAA is to avoid him being the majors because he looked bad in 46 PA. That’s it. That’s the only thing people can come up with.

And spare me the idea he needs to go to AAA to learn how to play first. He has the offseason and ST for that. 

One reason would be they think Mountcastle is better than him. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

One reason would be they think Mountcastle is better than him. 

Then you don’t keep OHearn. Both of those guys should not be on the team in 2025.

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Nothing.

The only reason to put him down in AAA is to avoid him being the majors because he looked bad in 46 PA. That’s it. That’s the only thing people can come up with.

And spare me the idea he needs to go to AAA to learn how to play first. He has the offseason and ST for that. 

Think it’s pretty naive to think that somebody just learns a new position in the offseason or spring training and that’s enough to put a team defensively at risk in the regular season instead of giving him reps in the minors to shore up things. Especially since he clearly has things to work on offensively.