After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Lester Freamon]

Neither was as poor. This is not Pie's first few weeks in the Majors. Did you forget the Cub's? That is why he is out of options.

Nick was a bit special in that he made the jump straight from AA. Jones, however, did have a couple unimpressive stints with the Mariners before he was traded to us. Jones' stints weren't quite as long as Pie's though. Still, switching leagues, switching positions it's all a new start for Pie. The Cubs pulled the plug on him last year because they were a contending team.

[wickedwitch]

Not that it's been the cause of most of his defensive problems, but the green monster is very hard to play off of if you've never done it before. I give him a pass for all of those mistakes.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm willing to give playing time to players that have shown they earned it. Pie has not shown anything since his time in AAA in 2007.

Meanwhile Montanez raked in AA and at the ML level last year, and Reimold blew up in the AA playoffs and both had good springs. And both are raking in AAA right now.

That's a great idea. If it was 1947 and you could control a player's career for as long as you wanted to, and could keep someone in the minors until he was 45 years old.

Unfortunately today there's a pesky little collective barganing agreement to deal with, and because of that you have to sometimes make some tradeoffs for the long-term health of the organization.

I just don't see how anyone can be in favor of releasing a good young player who's struggling when you're not going to compete this year anyway. You're asking the Orioles to dump an asset and get nothing in return. The only way to justify that is if you have ZERO confidence Pie will ever amount to ANYTHING.

[J.D.]

And Pie has had over 250 Abs at the MLB level...

Reimold...0

Huh. I forgot that we make decisions on baseball players at around 250 MLB at bats.

Thank god we broke the rules with Markakis and Jones.

[DrungoHazewood]

Some people don't need 600+ PA to see that the guy doesn't have a chance to become a decent hitter.

I pretty sure there's at least one poster who set his opinion in stone three pitches into Pie's first spring at bat.

[ejf1025]

It's a counting stat. The +37 is a 3-year total, not an average. If 34 of them came in one year, that leaves a total of 3 for the other two. Based on what I saw even during the good year, the 2-year total matches what I saw a whole lot more than does the mega-number in that one year. It's the one-year number that I don't understand.

ok...gotcha.

I guess this is my issue, I don't understand how defense can really fluctuate this badly particularly in the OF. I respect the numbers, but I am doubting.

Plus, I don't really agree with your assessment of his skills. I thought his ability to track the ball in the gap was on-par with league's best. And I thought his ability to play the wall was phenomenal.

Perhaps there could have been glovework and arm improvements, but on the whole I was very comfortable with his fielding.

[TGO]

....Reimold is absolutely tearing the cover of the ball at AAA.

Reimold does that. When he's hot, he's scorching. He burns the surface of the sun. He's unwatchable at the plate when he cools off, though.

Giving Pie and Reimold two more months at their respective spots is the most responsible course of action and frankly the only sensible one.

[TyCobb]

Did you with Nick Markakis? Adam Jones? Markakis was far worse than Pie's been both offensively and defensively in his first cup of coffee.

Jumping to conclusions is a bad thing. Never a good thing. Whether you end up being proven right or wrong on this specific player is irrelevant. If all you are willing to give a young player, in a year where he can suck all year long and it won't cost us anything, is two weeks, then that's really all you need to say about how you judge players. Its a terrible, terrible way to do things. I'm glad our front office and coaching staff isn't as knee-jerk in their reactions.

Markakis was 22 and in his 1st half of his first season he had a .268/.335/.348 line (2nd half .311/.364/.532). Before his call up he a total of 124 AB at Double AA and 910 AB at A.

Pie was 22 when he got his first call up to the Majors too. His 1st half of his first seasons was worst with a .216/.272/.345. Before his call up he had a total of 1162 AB at Rk/A, 240 at AA, 559 (not sure when he got the call up so it could be more ABs at AAA) at AAA.

Pie should out hit Markakis by a lot in his 1st call up, but didn't. It blows my mind why people here still think he is such a good prospect.

[TyCobb]

I pretty sure there's at least one poster who set his opinion in stone three pitches into Pie's first spring at bat.

Are you taking a shot at me?

[J.D.]

Markakis was 22 and in his 1st half of his first season he had a .268/.335/.348 line (2nd half .311/.364/.532). Before his call up he a total of 124 AB at Double AA and 910 AB at A.

Pie was 22 when he got his first call up to the Majors too. His 1st half of his first seasons was worst with a .216/.272/.345. Before his call up he had a total of 1162 AB at Rk/A, 240 at AA, 559 (not sure when he got the call up so it could be more ABs at AAA) at AAA.

Pie should out hit Markakis by a lot in his 1st call up, but didn't. It blows my mind why people here still think he is such a good prospect.

No, he shouldn't. Sure, he had more at bats than Markakis did. You're assuming that his ceiling as a hitter is higher than Nick's. It's not. I don't think anyone's ever said that.

But you're talking about a guy that'll hit, if he reaches his ceiling, .280-.290 or so, hit about 20 homers, steal bases, and play significantly above average defense if you let him reach his ceiling. Would you take Shannon Stewart in his prime? That's very similar to what I see Felix Pie turning into.

I'm sure Drungo will step in and correct me if I'm wrong about the type of player I see Pie turning into.

[TyCobb]

No, he shouldn't. Sure, he had more at bats than Markakis did. You're assuming that his ceiling as a hitter is higher than Nick's. It's not. I don't think anyone's ever said that.

But you're talking about a guy that'll hit, if he reaches his ceiling, .280-.290 or so, hit about 20 homers, steal bases, and play significantly above average defense if you let him reach his ceiling. Would you take Shannon Stewart in his prime? That's very similar to what I see Felix Pie turning into.

I'm sure Drungo will step in and correct me if I'm wrong about the type of player I see Pie turning into.

In 2006 Baseball America had Nick Markakis at 21 and Felix Pie at 27. So pretty much the same rankings and ceiling. Actually Pie may have had a higher ceiling.

I see Pie as a 4th OFer who will Pinch run often. And that is if he stays in baseball.

[DrungoHazewood]

Markakis was 22 and in his 1st half of his first season he had a .268/.335/.348 line (2nd half .311/.364/.532). Before his call up he a total of 124 AB at Double AA and 910 AB at A.

Pie was 22 when he got his first call up to the Majors too. His 1st half of his first seasons was worst with a .216/.272/.345. Before his call up he had a total of 1162 AB at Rk/A, 240 at AA, 559 (not sure when he got the call up so it could be more ABs at AAA) at AAA.

Pie should out hit Markakis by a lot in his 1st call up, but didn't. It blows my mind why people here still think he is such a good prospect.

That holds water only if you think that Pie and Markakis are the same. I don't think they're remotely comparable. Completely different approaches, skills. Everyone changes at different rates. Guys with much different balance in their tool/skill/ability sets certainly don't develop at the same rates.

Are you taking a shot at me?

No, no. I was thinking of someone much older.

[J.D.]

In 2006 Baseball America had Nick Markakis at 21 and Felix Pie at 27. So pretty much the same rankings and ceiling. Actually Pie may have had a higher ceiling.

I see Pie as a 4th OFer who will Pinch run often. And that is if he stays in baseball.

Just because they were both high prospects doesn't mean that they were the same type of player, or would develop at the same rates. Everyone develops at a different rate, and that goes for pretty much everything. Not just baseball.

[DrungoHazewood]

No, he shouldn't. Sure, he had more at bats than Markakis did. You're assuming that his ceiling as a hitter is higher than Nick's. It's not. I don't think anyone's ever said that.

But you're talking about a guy that'll hit, if he reaches his ceiling, .280-.290 or so, hit about 20 homers, steal bases, and play significantly above average defense if you let him reach his ceiling. Would you take Shannon Stewart in his prime? That's very similar to what I see Felix Pie turning into.

I'm sure Drungo will step in and correct me if I'm wrong about the type of player I see Pie turning into.

I think Felix Pie will turn into Felix Pie. And that could be anything from Gary Pettis to Corey Patterson to Torii Hunter to Paul Blair to Darnell McDonald to Sammy Sosa.

I just want him to be given every chance to become something as a Baltimore Oriole.

[J.D.]

I think Felix Pie will turn into Felix Pie. And that could be anything from Gary Pettis to Corey Patterson to Torii Hunter to Paul Blair to Darnell McDonald to Sammy Sosa.

I just want him to be given every chance to become something as a Baltimore Oriole.

Well yeah. I was just talking about skill sets.