Anyone else cheering for the O's to lose?

[Sports Guy]

You want to claim that my rooting for the team to win always (you know, like a FAN does) is bad because it can hurt the team, but when it's the other way around it is still OK because we had the chance?

That doesn't make any sense.

To take the example you are obsessed with, lets say it was Teixiera that had been injured, while Smith wasn't, and he achieved his potential while Teixiera languished in the lower minors before his release.

Would you still have the same opinion?

Absolutely...End of the day, those 3 losses would have meant nothing.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This is one of the more unfortunate threads I have ever seen. While many of the venting threads are ugly, at least I can understand them as being simple reflections of people being frustrated. This thread has no redeeming attributes of any kind.

'Have a good evening.

Yeah, yeah..."I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

We know.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Absolutely...End of the day, those 3 losses would have meant nothing.

And I'm still a "terrible fan" for rooting for victories in those games?

[mweb]

Were those losses the difference between a playoff berth and missing one?

No? Then what does it matter, really?

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but in that moment, it's more fun to watch your team win. Plus more winning probably means some of the young players are playing well, which bodes well for the future.

Now, I'm more like NMS, in the way that I'm mostly indifferent towards wins and losses at this point except when they play the Yanks or Sox, or if I was at a game. I'm more into individual performance.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Now you're taking poor logical step. If it has no affect then you're entire argument is a waste of time. Also, your criticism of NMS and others becomes worthless. Their negativity has no affect on the team's play either. Don't confuse arguments.

No, his argument is the one built on whether or not how I root for the team I am a fan of actually has an effect.

And, it makes the negativity worse because it gives no logical reason to call yourself a fan while you never have a good word to say about them, even when good things happen.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Now, I'm more like NMS, in the way that I'm mostly indifferent towards wins and losses at this point except when they play the Yanks or Sox, or if I was at a game. I'm more into individual performance.

Here's my beef with NMS, he's not indifferent towards wins and losses. He wants losses. Now that would be fine if his preference was so that our long term health is bettered (like SG). NMS prefers we lose so that he can boast on an anonymous message board.

Personal gain vs. Orioles gain.

[orioles119]

Thanks...Didn't answer the question but your "input" is always helpful.

I root for them to win too.. darn I guess I'm a terrible fan too.

There's no guarantee that the # 1 pick will live up to it.

You're "input" of costant circling around answers is very helpful too, oh clairvoyant one.

[orioles119]

True, but I believe the #1 pick easily has the best success rate though.

In a situation, where it was at the end of the year, and I wasn't at the game, I'd root against the O's if it would get them a better pick(if that was clearly important considering the players available). I will not start rooting against the team now though, it's too early for that imo.

Year 	Player 	Team 	Position1965 	Rick Monday 	Kansas City Athletics 	Outfielder1966 	Steve Chilcott 	New York Mets 	Catcher1967 	Ron Blomberg 	New York Yankees 	First baseman1968 	Tim Foli 	New York Mets 	Shortstop1969 	Jeff Burroughs 	Washington Senators 	Outfielder1970 	Mike Ivie 	San Diego Padres 	Catcher1971 	Danny Goodwin 	Chicago White Sox 	Catcher1972 	Dave Roberts 	San Diego Padres 	Third baseman1973 	David Clyde 	Texas Rangers 	Pitcher1974 	Bill Almon 	San Diego Padres 	Shortstop1975 	Danny Goodwin[2] 	California Angels 	Catcher1976 	Floyd Bannister 	Houston Astros 	Pitcher1977 	Harold Baines 	Chicago White Sox 	Outfielder1978 	Bob Horner 	Atlanta Braves 	Third baseman1979 	Al Chambers 	Seattle Mariners 	Outfielder1980 	Darryl Strawberry 	New York Mets 	Outfielder1981 	Mike Moore 	Seattle Mariners 	Pitcher1982 	Shawon Dunston 	Chicago Cubs 	Shortstop1983 	Tim Belcher 	Minnesota Twins 	Pitcher1984 	Shawn Abner 	New York Mets 	Outfielder1985 	B.J. Surhoff 	Milwaukee Brewers 	Catcher1986 	Jeff King 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Third baseman1987 	Ken Griffey, Jr. 	Seattle Mariners 	Outfielder1988 	Andy Benes 	San Diego Padres 	Pitcher1989 	Ben McDonald 	Baltimore Orioles 	Pitcher1990 	Chipper Jones 	Atlanta Braves 	Shortstop1991 	Brien Taylor 	New York Yankees 	Pitcher1992 	Phil Nevin 	Houston Astros 	Third baseman1993 	Alex Rodriguez 	Seattle Mariners 	Shortstop1994 	Paul Wilson 	New York Mets 	Pitcher1995 	Darin Erstad 	Anaheim Angels 	Outfielder1996 	Kris Benson 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Pitcher1997 	Matt Anderson 	Detroit Tigers 	Pitcher1998 	Pat Burrell 	Philadelphia Phillies 	Third baseman1999 	Josh Hamilton 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Outfielder2000 	Adrián González 	Florida Marlins 	First baseman2001 	Joe Mauer 	Minnesota Twins 	Catcher2002 	Bryan Bullington 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Pitcher2003 	Delmon Young 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Outfielder2004 	Matt Bush 	San Diego Padres 	Shortstop2005 	Justin Upton 	Arizona Diamondbacks 	Shortstop2006 	Luke Hochevar 	Kansas City Royals 	Pitcher2007 	David Price 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Pitcher

Let's discuss this success rate...

[BaltimoreTerp]

Injuries are always an issue, but you're extreme characterization of the situation is just as bad as SGs.

It's not black and white, and it's not a complete crapshoot either. Even one pick higher can mean a world of difference between two players.

You are making my point for me.

I WAS making an extreme characterization, because one of those is the basis of his whole argument here. Until he realizes that, there will be no chance for movement on this impasse.

One pick in general can make a huge difference, but it doesn't matter whether it is one pick higher or lower, and it can change drastically from year to year.

[Mashed Potatoes]

No, his argument is the one built on whether or not how I root for the team I am a fan of actually has an effect.

He's responding to your criticism of NMS not being fan because he wants us to lose. Nowhere has anyone brought up a correlation between our fandom and the team's performance. He's saying that if you choose short term meaninglessness ahead of long term success then you are a bad fan, because you're choosing what is worse for the team. Either way you root has no tangible affect.

And, it makes the negativity worse because it gives no logical reason to call yourself a fan while you never have a good word to say about them, even when good things happen.

Poor argument, SG has complimented things the O's have done, he's not like Sapper.

[rolliefingers]

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but in that moment, it's more fun to watch your team win. Plus more winning probably means some of the young players are playing well, which bodes well for the future.

Now, I'm more like NMS, in the way that I'm mostly indifferent towards wins and losses at this point except when they play the Yanks or Sox, or if I was at a game. I'm more into individual performance.

I basically agree. I'm happy with the fact that we're giving "the kids" a shot. We're doing the right thing, so I'll be just as happy with wins as losses; at least we'll have a better idea of who'll be a part of next year's team.

[mweb]

Year 	Player 	Team 	Position1965 	Rick Monday 	Kansas City Athletics 	Outfielder1966 	Steve Chilcott 	New York Mets 	Catcher1967 	Ron Blomberg 	New York Yankees 	First baseman1968 	Tim Foli 	New York Mets 	Shortstop1969 	Jeff Burroughs 	Washington Senators 	Outfielder1970 	Mike Ivie 	San Diego Padres 	Catcher1971 	Danny Goodwin 	Chicago White Sox 	Catcher1972 	Dave Roberts 	San Diego Padres 	Third baseman1973 	David Clyde 	Texas Rangers 	Pitcher1974 	Bill Almon 	San Diego Padres 	Shortstop1975 	Danny Goodwin[2] 	California Angels 	Catcher1976 	Floyd Bannister 	Houston Astros 	Pitcher1977 	Harold Baines 	Chicago White Sox 	Outfielder1978 	Bob Horner 	Atlanta Braves 	Third baseman1979 	Al Chambers 	Seattle Mariners 	Outfielder1980 	Darryl Strawberry 	New York Mets 	Outfielder1981 	Mike Moore 	Seattle Mariners 	Pitcher1982 	Shawon Dunston 	Chicago Cubs 	Shortstop1983 	Tim Belcher 	Minnesota Twins 	Pitcher1984 	Shawn Abner 	New York Mets 	Outfielder1985 	B.J. Surhoff 	Milwaukee Brewers 	Catcher1986 	Jeff King 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Third baseman1987 	Ken Griffey, Jr. 	Seattle Mariners 	Outfielder1988 	Andy Benes 	San Diego Padres 	Pitcher1989 	Ben McDonald 	Baltimore Orioles 	Pitcher1990 	Chipper Jones 	Atlanta Braves 	Shortstop1991 	Brien Taylor 	New York Yankees 	Pitcher1992 	Phil Nevin 	Houston Astros 	Third baseman1993 	Alex Rodriguez 	Seattle Mariners 	Shortstop1994 	Paul Wilson 	New York Mets 	Pitcher1995 	Darin Erstad 	Anaheim Angels 	Outfielder1996 	Kris Benson 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Pitcher1997 	Matt Anderson 	Detroit Tigers 	Pitcher1998 	Pat Burrell 	Philadelphia Phillies 	Third baseman1999 	Josh Hamilton 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Outfielder2000 	Adrián González 	Florida Marlins 	First baseman2001 	Joe Mauer 	Minnesota Twins 	Catcher2002 	Bryan Bullington 	Pittsburgh Pirates 	Pitcher2003 	Delmon Young 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Outfielder2004 	Matt Bush 	San Diego Padres 	Shortstop2005 	Justin Upton 	Arizona Diamondbacks 	Shortstop2006 	Luke Hochevar 	Kansas City Royals 	Pitcher2007 	David Price 	Tampa Bay Devil Rays 	Pitcher

Let's discuss this success rate...

What's your point? That not all #1 picks turn into stars or even MLB players, well I agreed with that, but the success rate is still the best of any pick, and if I recall correctly, it was by a decent margin.

[orioles119]

What's your point? That not all #1 picks turn into stars or even MLB players, well I agreed with that, but the success rate is still the best of any pick, and if I recall correctly, it was by a decent margin.

Well... what is the success rate? I provided the evidence.

[BaltimoreTerp]

He's responding to your criticism of NMS not being fan because he wants us to lose. Nowhere has anyone brought up a correlation between our fandom and the team's performance. He's saying that if you choose short term meaninglessness ahead of long term success then you are a bad fan, because you're choosing what is worse for the team. Either way you root has no tangible affect.

He is saying that because I would have rooted for the Orioles to win that series against the Yankees, despite knowing nothing about the future (which is where his points are flawed to the point of irrelevance) I am a bad fan.

However, if my rooting interest has no affect anyway, then his whole argument is moot.

As for Sean, if ones rooting interest doesn't matter, then what is his reasoning for being negative to the point of not posting when the team wins, and reveling in the losses, which you yourself are claiming? He is truly a terrible fan, and I have never seen evidence to the contrary.

Poor argument, SG has complimented things the O's have done, he's not like Sapper.

But Sean is like him, which was what I was referring to.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What's your point? That not all #1 picks turn into stars or even MLB players, well I agreed with that, but the success rate is still the best of any pick, and if I recall correctly, it was by a decent margin.

We aren't getting the number one pick, and even if that pick has a 50% chance, all the others are worse enough to make it not matter which we get, until we know who we are getting and how they turn out.