Anyone still want to make a compelling argument against rebuilding?

[Sports Guy]

Anyone?

Bueller?

[DrungoHazewood]

In OOTP2007 there's a trading block feature where you place players you want the rest of the league to know are available. I'm hoping Flanny's and McPhail's mice are wearing out their desks dragging and dropping everyone in the organization besides Markakis into the trading block.

[NCRaven]

If Jim Hoey and Brian Burres are part of the rebuilding, I'm not sure what your point is. They're the young players and they're the ones who killed us last night.

I agree we should rebuild, but these losses weren't caused by the vets. I guess, I agree with your decision, but fault your use of last night as a reason.

[RShack]

Depends entirely on what you mean by "rebuilding". Weeks ago, I asked people what "blow it up" really means, and there were a variety of different answers. Same thing with "rebuilding".

I think everyone (not "most people", but "everyone") agrees that it is necessary to manage aging, get younger, and get better. I don't know of anybody who disagrees with that. AFAIK, the difference of opinion is over whether it is useful to preemptively trash the '08 season and trade most/all of the good players for unproven prospects vs. keep most of the good guys and improve around them. I believe that you favor the former, and I favor the latter. AFAIK, there is no widespread consensus on this point.

[Darthy Katt]

The past four years, the O's seem to be "debuilding", especially in the bullpen area, rather than "rebuilding" It just gets worse rather than better evey year!

[NewMarketSean]

I think it's become clearer than ever that Tejada and Roberts need to go and Bedard should be shopped aggressively. Matter of fact if they are on the team next year I am going to be mad.

[Sports Guy]

Who did have an argument against rebuilding? The argument is over what constitutes rebuilding.

Some of the "rebuilders" think signing someone like Millar is wrong regardless of the production he provides because he isn't a long term solution.

Some of the "rebuilders" think that we should be trading for nothing but minor league prospects and get rid of anyone over 28-30.

Some of the "rebuilders" think we need to move Tejada and possibly Hernandez. We should shop and listen to offers for Bedard, Roberts, our older relievers, etc... but only trade them if offered good value.

The team won't work as currently constructed, but the most glaring deficiency continues to be our bullpen guys that weren't signed for big dollars (excluding Baez). Our offense isn't great, but I think it is fairly close IF we get bullpen results that match our starters.

To summarize, I don't think we are nearly at a trash everything and start over point. You do. I think we need to turn over about 30% of the roster. I think You believe we need to turn over more than 70% of the roster. I'm not sure I'm right and you're wrong, but you shouldn't be sure that you're right and I'm wrong either.

Tons of people...many people think we are 1 or 2 bats away.

We have heard many people say we are close and not far away from competing.

[AlBumbry]

I think it's become clearer than ever that Tejada and Roberts need to go and Bedard should be shopped aggressively. Matter of fact if they are on the team next year I am going to be mad.

Oh no, not that!!!!!! Anything but that!!!!!

[Greg Pappas]

SG, you and I both know that although we've been calling for a retooling/rebuilding for years, the Oriole apologists and diehards will AGAIN point to one specific team issue that can be overcome in the upcoming off-season as the reason to keep the team intact. This year will be the bullpen, again.

If only we could fix this bullpen we would be contenders...

If only we had that one big bat in the middle of the lineup...

As a lifelong Oriole fan, who loves his team as much as any of you, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now. Is it possible that by revamping the pen next year that we would have a better record, certainly. Is it possible that by adding a stud bat to our lineup we could infuse the offense to the point of making a run next season? Unlikely. This team is not currently constructed to sustain success over the long haul. Adding a part or three may get us to .500. I'm brimming with anticipation.

Sorry folks, another mediocre season in Baltimore is not what this franchise needs. Change is needed, big changes. Bring in young talent that offers us at least the one thing most of us don't have; hope.

Will we trade Bedard if he decides not to extend, or will he be extended and anchor this rotation for years to come? Will we trade the face of the franchise, BRob? MacPhail has a lot to do this off-season, and step one is to determine the course of our franchise's future. In my opinion, this coming off-season will be the most important one we've had in a long. long time.

[nadecir]

Depends entirely on what you mean by "rebuilding". Weeks ago, I asked people what "blow it up" really means, and there were a variety of different answers. Same thing with "rebuilding".

I think everyone (not "most people", but "everyone") agrees that it is necessary to manage aging, get younger, and get better. I don't know of anybody who disagrees with that. AFAIK, the difference of opinion is over whether it is useful to preemptively trash the '08 season and trade most/all of the good players for unproven prospects vs. keep most of the good guys and improve around them. I believe that you favor the former, and I favor the latter. AFAIK, there is no widespread consensus on this point.

I think the Orioles have done a good job already in trashing the '08 season without trying to rebuild. The Orioles have perfected the "reverse rebuilding method". Acquire veteran players to expensive contracts, and watch the team get both older and decline at the same time.

If players like Mora, Tejada, Hernandez, Gibbons, Huff, Roberts, Payton and Millar follow normal patterns of player decline as they get older, our below average offense is bound to get worse if we don't make some major player moves.

[AlBumbry]

Tons of people...many people think we are 1 or 2 bats away.

We have heard many people say we are close and not far away from competing.

Well, if we had 1 or 2 more bats, maybe we would've scored 16 runs last night. Just sayin' . . .

Seriously, though, you of the oft quoted "small sample size", why should last nights or even the last weeks games have changed anyone's minds?

[The Wedge]

I think it's become clearer than ever that Tejada and Roberts need to go and Bedard should be shopped aggressively. Matter of fact if they are on the team next year I am going to be mad.

:lol: You're gonna be mad either way. You'll find something, bro, you know you will.

[wildcard]

Anyone?

Bueller?

Sure.

Under Trembley in July the team went 15-10.

The team scored 4.84 runs per game in 25 games.

The team ERA was 4.13 for the month.

In August the team is 8-17.

The team has scored 4.8 runs per games in 25 games.

The team's ERA is 6.83 for the month. The problem has been in large part the bullpen.

Fix the bullpen and you have a winning team.

[Sports Guy]

Well, if we had 1 or 2 more bats, maybe we would've scored 16 runs last night. Just sayin' . . .

Seriously, though, you of the oft quoted "small sample size", why should last nights or even the last weeks games have changed anyone's minds?

Because many people on here deal with sample sizes.

Guys like Wildcard were saying we were right there with Trembley..."look at our record under DT"....Blah blah blah.

Well, now that record isn't that good at all anymore, so perhaps people are changing their minds.

I agree it shouldn't matter but then again, people shouldn't have thought we were 1 or 2 players away to begin with.

[RShack]

Who did have an argument against rebuilding? The argument is over what constitutes rebuilding. [stuff deleted]

Tons of people...many people think we are 1 or 2 bats away.

We have heard many people say we are close and not far away from competing.

Way to miss the point. Read his second sentence.

There is nothing about recognizing a need for a significant bat or two that is incompatible with "rebuilding". It's just incompatible with your extreme definition of rebuilding, which seems to call for turning over 80% of the starting line-up in one winter.