Red Sox Working Hard for A-Gon. Why Not Us?

[Sports Guy]

Uh, yeah it does.

They'll subtract 1.9 WAR from Ellsbury, 3.5 WAR from Bay, 1.2 WAR from Lowell and 1.2 WAR from Buchholz = 7.8 WAR

They've gained 4.0 from Cameron, 6.0 from Gonzalez and probably 4.0 from Lackey

So that would put them at a net gain of 6.2 WAR.

Considering they won 95 games last season, that puts them at 101-102 wins on paper.

Edit: I forgot the Scutaro for Gonzalez change at SS, and even then they gain 3 more wins. So more like 104-105.

LOL..Typical Jtrea...You assume that Gonzalez, off of a career year, will do the same.

You assume Cameron, who is older and changing leagues again, will do the same.

You assume Lackey will stay healthy and be his normal self.

Then, you assume that Buchholz and Ellsbury won't get better.

And then, on top of all of that, you are assuming that they have no regression from any of their remaining players...That they don't suffer injuries, etc...

Look, they may win 100 games in 2010...They may also turn around and win 89 in 2011.

[Shopay]

Giving up Tillman, Arrieta, Pie, and Snyder or something like that for the next two years of Gonzalez, because he's not signing an extension, would be stupid. Anybody who wants to do that is braindead.

Yep. How Trea and his merry men can't see this is beyond me.

[JTrea81]

LOL..Typical Jtrea...You assume that Gonzalez, off of a career year, will do the same.

Typical SG, you assume a player won't ever possibly have a better year than at age 27 in a pitcher's park when they move to a hitter's league. I think I'm underrating AGon frankly.

[JTrea81]

Yep. How Trea and his merry men can't see this is beyond me.

Why wouldn't Gonzalez sign an extension with the Orioles?

[MemorialStadKid]

I will ask this question again, and I believe this is a legitimate question:

If the Red Sox - for example - continue to sign excellent players year after year and continue to keep a strong winning record year after year and the Orioles keep posting losing seasons -

What is the incentive for an excellent player in the 2011 free agent market to sign here if we haven't shown some inkling of a desire to field a winning team?

MSK

[Shopay]

This is absolutely right. This is what people need to get. The Sox and Yankees can't get realistically "better". They aren't going to win 120 games. These are moves made to maintain.

Frobby said it best, we can't get wrapped up in what they are doing and comparing ourselves to them. They are working towards a different end right now. We need to work on what gets US to the next level. We need to take a realistic approach to what we have and what we can get/do and go from there.

Absolutely correct. If AM followed the path being layed out by Trea and his merry men the O's would be destined for at best a 3rd place finish in the next ten years.

[elsid]

LOL..Typical Jtrea...You assume that Gonzalez, off of a career year, will do the same.

You assume Cameron, who is older and changing leagues again, will do the same.

You assume Lackey will stay healthy and be his normal self.

Then, you assume that Buchholz and Ellsbury won't get better.

And then, on top of all of that, you are assuming that they have no regression from any of their remaining players...That they don't suffer injuries, etc...

Look, they may win 100 games in 2010...They may also turn around and win 89 in 2011.

All in all, you can't assume anyone will get any better. Sure, there are numbers to think that the younger players will get better, though you never know what could happen to anyone.

You have to weigh everything proportionally, pros and cons, which is what you are doing. Not trying to knock what you are saying. Overall, it is a hard pill to swallow -- wanting to get better, while not mortgaging the farm.

[tom smith]

:laughlol:i don't know if this is intentional or not (oops), but i repped you for it anyway.

lol !!!!!!!

[JTrea81]

Absolutely correct. If AM followed the path being layed out by Trea and his merry men the O's would be destined for at best a 3rd place finish in the next ten years.

And MacPhail's plan guarantees us a consistent playoff berth?

[Hank Scorpio]

Why wouldn't Gonzalez sign an extension with the Orioles?

Who knows?

He prefers In-N-Out to Five Guys?

[Hank Scorpio]

And MacPhail's plan guarantees us a consistent playoff berth?

From this day forth, you're no longer permitted to use the word "guarantee."

[Oriolesfan1988]

Why wouldn't Gonzalez sign an extension with the Orioles?

I'll give you an answer. His agent is boras and they never sign extensions.

[Shopay]

Why wouldn't Gonzalez sign an extension with the Orioles?

Because he wants to test the market. Why didn't Lackey sign a extension with the Angels when they put millions of dollars on the table earlier this year? Furthermore, even if he did, you are still giving up several potential valuable pieces for one piece. The O's are not yet in the position to do that right now. How difficult is it to see that Boston is in a different position than the O's right now in terms of talent/depth and what they are trying to accomplish next year?

[JTrea81]

The Sox are deeper, on the verge of the postseason and can afford to take the risk involved in that hit - the Orioles can not.

Why, because we'll go back to a 5th place team if it blows up?

Wait a minute...

[JTrea81]

Why didn't Lackey sign a extension with the Angels when they put millions of dollars on the table earlier this year??

Because they didn't offer him market value.