Red Sox Working Hard for A-Gon. Why Not Us?

[Moose Milligan]

Why don't people understand that we won't have to empty out the farm to acquire a guy that fills a clear and present need for the team so that we can improve?

The mix up in communication here happens when we assume that we don't have money to extend him and also lock up our young guys because we are under the impression that the Orioles have no financial freedom to operate.

This seems to be the bottom line with these discussions. One group believes we're in the poorhouse, and the other knows that Angelos is rolling in loot but won't spend it on his team.

MSK

Please do me a simple favor.

Go over to the minors forum, take any one of the numerous lists that rank our top 10 guys. You'll find that they're all very similar.

Delete 5 names off that list and then replenish that list with 5 more names that you find in a list that ranks our prospects 10-20. If you have a hard time finding the 10-20 list, Tony compiles one each year.

Pelase report back to us with your findings and tell us if we're better off with the first list you found or the 2nd list you had to create.

[Dr. Andrews]

Is it a falsehood when many of these posts about why we shouldn't have gotten Lackey comes down to the fact that we supposedly have no payroll flexibility and we can't "throw money at free agents like the Red Sox and the Yankees?"

Look through this very thread to see that sentiment for yourself. I don't need to prove anything that your very own eyes can see.

MSK

The reason we shouldn't have gotten Lackey is because throwing 100 Million (I believe that is what he would have cost us) at a pitcher that couldn't even manage to get above 14 wins more than once on a perennial contender IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Especially with the likes of Beckett, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Webb on the market next year. Talk to me then about spending big money.

[tvz1997]

Is it a falsehood when many of these posts about why we shouldn't have gotten Lackey comes down to the fact that we supposedly have no payroll flexibility and we can't "throw money at free agents like the Red Sox and the Yankees?"

Look through this very thread to see that sentiment for yourself. I don't need to prove anything that your very own eyes can see.

MSK

I posted this last night in another thread:

You know, I was just rereading a Verducci article from last year about the shortage of star shortstops (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...9296/index.htm) and thinking about how different this offseason (especially the discussion on this board) would be if we had the same sort of shortstop free agents we saw 5-10 years ago. If there was a $20,000,000 28yo shortstop free agent out there, I think many of those who are being pegged as third-party cheapskates would be on board with making that kind of serious investment. It just so happens that the best offensive talent available via free agency is either too old or in our area of greatest major league strength (outfield).

I think the same applies to Lackey. If there was a shortstop of his caliber and with his price tag available, I think you'd be surprised how many people that you think prefer to have a viselike grip on the pursestrings would be glad to pay up for the position of our greatest need.

[waroriole]

source - Kevin Cowherd, Balt. Sun

Yeah I saw that article too. I assume that Kevin is Colin's brother, or alter ego.

[Sports Guy]

There is no doubt that the Padres will want Matusz in a deal...1 of the 4 or 5 players they will want back.

Matusz is from the area, is young, cheap and under control for a while.

Who here is trading Matusz, along with 3-4 top young players for AGon?

I wouldn't trade Matusz straight up for AGon, much less with more guys attached to him.

[JTrea81]

The Padres are looking for pitching, a CFer and a catcher.

Tillman, Pie, Joseph along with Arrieta and Snyder might be enough to land him IMO.

The Padres get 4 ML ready players instead of only 2 or 3 from the Red Sox

The Orioles keep Britton, Matusz, Erbe and Bell so they don't empty out the system.

[tom smith]

Getting a guy like Adrian Gonzalez makes sense if you've already been in the postseason or are in the position to get there. We are not. We are not anywhere close to that. So explain to me why it makes sense to get him. Even if you add in Gonzalez, we are not going to the playoffs, and heck, I'm skeptical we even finish with the hallowed .500 record. It doesn't make sense for a team like the Orioles. Nobody is saying they don't want to get better, and nobody is saying don't talk to the Padres at all. Of course if he is available you give a call and see what they want.

But it makes no sense for a team that didn't even win 70 games last year to give up the farm for a guy who is two years from free agency, stands a good chance of not resigning, and will not put this team anywhere close to the postseason, unless everything breaks right for us and everything goes wrong for the other teams out there. Giving up some combination of Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Pie, etc., will set us back, and chances are we will regret it when you factor in the performances of the group we are likely to give up versus what we get back. Did I also mention the distinct possibility that he doesn't resign?

It doesn't make sense for the Orioles.

I flat out disagree. You get players when you can, you don't sit around and wait or you could be waiting a long time. If we were to get AGon and a3B and add another pitcher and fix the BP[ which we can do this off season] we'd be real close to playing in the postseason.

[Sports Guy]

The Padres are looking for pitching, a CFer and a catcher.

Tillman, Pie, Joseph along with Arrieta and Snyder might be enough to land him IMO.

The Padres get 4 ML ready players instead of only 2 or 3 from the Red Sox

The Orioles keep Britton, Matusz, Erbe and Bell so they don't empty out the system.

Just a terrible deal for us and again, they will want Matusz.

[Moose Milligan]

There is no doubt that the Padres will want Matusz in a deal...1 of the 4 or 5 players they will want back.

Matusz is from the area, is young, cheap and under control for a while.

Who here is trading Matusz, along with 3-4 top young players for AGon?

I wouldn't trade Matusz straight up for AGon, much less with more guys attached to him.

I agree.

I can't understand how anyone really doesn't at LEAST see where you're coming from on this.

[LeeMay]

I'd be willing to give up Tillman, Erbe, Reimold/Pie and Scott...IF we would extend Gonzales. Would he take 75 for 5 right off the bat? Probably have to offer 18 per though. If the FO cannot extend him, then the point is moot.

[JTrea81]

Just a terrible deal for us and again, they will want Matusz.

They may want him, but I think they take Tillman because he does have a high ceiling, possibly higher than Matusz, and pitching in PETCO for half his games as well as the NL West parks could help him reach that celing. Hoyer has said he'd like to get players that could take advantage of PETCO's dimensions.

A 22 year old Tillman > 25 year old Buchholz IMO.

[Slappy]

It doesn't matter what the Sox or Yanks give up out of their farm. They just go buy a proven, hired hand to replace them at the ML level.

I think we should be in the discussions for A-Gon. We don't have anybody on the farm that projects as an above-average 1B. We have a large number of highly regarded starting pitching prospects, losing one or two would not be an irreplaceable hit to the farm. We have the salary room to extend him. He has put up .850+ OPS in each of the last 4 years, and is entering his prime, putting up a .958 in his age 27 year in a pitcher's park.

It DOES make sense to go after him. Settling for stopgaps waiting for some theoretical point in the future where our prospects may possibly pan out and we may possibly compete is crazy.

[waroriole]

The Padres are looking for pitching, a CFer and a catcher.

Tillman, Pie, Joseph along with Arrieta and Snyder might be enough to land him IMO.

The Padres get 4 ML ready players instead of only 2 or 3 from the Red Sox

The Orioles keep Britton, Matusz, Erbe and Bell so they don't empty out the system.

That's too much. Where does our SP come from now. We are left with Matusz and Bergy (who likely won't be a 3.43 ERA SP). Britton hasn't even got to AA yet. Erbe, as you have said, may be destined for the pen. We would just have to go pay ridiculous FA prices for SP. That move hurts us. It's so easy to see that.

[tom smith]

Please do me a simple favor.

Go over to the minors forum, take any one of the numerous lists that rank our top 10 guys. You'll find that they're all very similar.

Delete 5 names off that list and then replenish that list with 5 more names that you find in a list that ranks our prospects 10-20. If you have a hard time finding the 10-20 list, Tony compiles one each year.

Pelase report back to us with your findings and tell us if we're better off with the first list you found or the 2nd list you had to create.

Thank you!!

[elsid]

Just a terrible deal for us and again, they will want Matusz.

I would guess you are right about that. It would take 4 or 5 of the O's minor league guys I guess. Right now it is Bucholz, Ellsbury + 1 from the Red Sox. At least that is what has been asked for.