Red Sox Working Hard for A-Gon. Why Not Us?

[wildbill1978]

I can understand the reluctance to trade a bunch of prospects but that doesn't make it any less frustrating to know that this will most probably delay our ability to compete.

Even if a fair amount of our guys break out we will more than likely still play second fiddle because of Boston and New York's ability to constantly acquire talent like that.

It is just so in our face every offseason. Tex, Sabathia, Burnett, Lackey, Beckett, Pettite, Agon, ect. ect......... Isn't it disgusting to anyone else?

It is upsetting to me. If the Sox give up four top of the line prospects, then I can understand why we wouldn't get involved, but look at it this way, if we give up two top prospects for this guy, hopefully he does well for the two years he is here. If we get a long term deal great. If we don't, then we lose him to free agency where he will hopefully be a Type A FA, and then we get a 1st round pick for him...which hopefully translates into another prospect.

The thing that really bothers me, is that we are in a holding period until AM feels it's the right time to bounce...that time may never come. We are putting all our chips on our prospects becoming legit. He keeps talking about buying the bats, but there have been several bats that have been available over the past two years, and we've gotten nothing. Our pitching may be awesome next year, but if we are only scoring 2 runs a game, then it will mean diddly squat!

[ChaosLex]

Mods, any chance we can merge this with the earlier thread that Hank Scorpio posted on the MLB boards?

Hilarity would ensue. :thumbsup1:

[Guest rbrhett]

Why not the Os? The answer is fairly simple.

The Os are not the Red Sox or Yankees, yet.

The Sox can afford to trade away a few young players because they already have a solid core of good players and a winning ball club. The Os are just getting to that point. You can't trade the farm for one guy and expect next season and beyond to magically improve for the team.

Yes, there are inequities in baseball. Yes, the Yankees and Red Sox are a problem because of the money they can put on the table for free agents, but as the Rays and Phillies have shown, if you can grow internally, you don't need high dollar free agents to be competitive and make it to the World Series. I would love to say that the Os had home-grown players like Utley, Rollins, Hammels, Happ, and Howard on its roster, and I think they will with Markakis, Weiters, Roberts, Matusz, Bergesen, and Arieta, not to mention Jones and Tillman who aren't "home grown" but are young. The Phillies stars are almost on the other side of their prime while the Os, with the exception of Roberts, are just beginning. I see the Os being the Phillies in three years. Sure, the Os need a masher like Howard, but they may be able to draft one or acquire one in the next year or two.

Look, I loved 1996 and 1997 as much as any other Os fan, and it was great when the Os could say they had the same payroll as the Yankees, but the fact is, that was over 10 years ago and the payroll structure and baseball have changed. The league does need a salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts, but in order for that to happen, baseball players and the Players Union will have to realize that a two team race is not good for baseball.

As in the case of the original united States, the Union or League should benefit and burden all equally, and I don't think any team but the Yankees and Red Sox would say that the League as currently constructed does that. So, until things change, the Os should spend more money on player development and the draft and hire the best minds in the game to mold their system in the "Oriole Way." Let the Yankees and Sox keep doing what they are doing. The Os will be competitive and I think winning the division within the next five years.

[MemorialStadKid]

Why don't people understand that us trading 4-5 top level young players is just not what we should be doing right now...unless that player is a true long term option.

Also, why is it people want to pay top dollar and top package for a player coming off of a career year?

People really just don't get it and I think that is all it boils down to.

Why don't people understand that we won't have to empty out the farm to acquire a guy that fills a clear and present need for the team so that we can improve?

The mix up in communication here happens when we assume that we don't have money to extend him and also lock up our young guys because we are under the impression that the Orioles have no financial freedom to operate.

This seems to be the bottom line with these discussions. One group believes we're in the poorhouse, and the other knows that Angelos is rolling in loot but won't spend it on his team.

MSK

[OrioleMagic]

If anything the Orioles need to get involved to make sure Hoyer grabs every drop of talent from Boston that he can, and the Orioles IMO have more ML ready talent that can help the Padres than the Red Sox so they should be able to bid him up even if they can't land him.

Now this I agree with!!!

[sakata_catching]

This seems to be the bottom line with these discussions. One group believes were in the poorhouse, and the other knows that Angelos is rolling in loot but won't spend it on his team.

Quoted for patent falsehood.

[tom smith]

We should be talking to SD. But if it takes one of the pieces that we consider and integral part of the future, then it should be eliminated. You talk to them and tell them this is who is available, pick 4-5:

Guthrie, Scott, Pie, Hernandez, Berken, Snyder, Erbe, Waring, Joseph, and other lower level prospects.

Everyone else is a piece you NEED if you acquire AGon to make the leap. They need to be here along with him for the push. Because 1, maybe 2 or 3 of Arrieta, Britton, Matusz, and Tillman will not live up to their potential and reach their ceiling.

Wouldn't you say AGon at 27 years old would be an integral part of our future.Your list of players to pick from is a good start but you would have to give up ONE of Tillman/Arrieta/Britton. Matusz should not be apart of this .

[ChaosLex]

Quoted for patent falsehood.

Agreed. This is absolutely ridiculous.

[ShaneDawg85]

SG your wrong if we are going to get better we need players like AGon and we have the players to make that happen and it WILLNOT set us back. Again we over value are young guys who have yet to do anything on the major league level. AGon may have had a career year or maybe not he is only 27 years old and has been very productive for 3 or 4 years now. So we should be talking with SD.

Getting a guy like Adrian Gonzalez makes sense if you've already been in the postseason or are in the position to get there. We are not. We are not anywhere close to that. So explain to me why it makes sense to get him. Even if you add in Gonzalez, we are not going to the playoffs, and heck, I'm skeptical we even finish with the hallowed .500 record. It doesn't make sense for a team like the Orioles. Nobody is saying they don't want to get better, and nobody is saying don't talk to the Padres at all. Of course if he is available you give a call and see what they want.

But it makes no sense for a team that didn't even win 70 games last year to give up the farm for a guy who is two years from free agency, stands a good chance of not resigning, and will not put this team anywhere close to the postseason, unless everything breaks right for us and everything goes wrong for the other teams out there. Giving up some combination of Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Pie, etc., will set us back, and chances are we will regret it when you factor in the performances of the group we are likely to give up versus what we get back. Did I also mention the distinct possibility that he doesn't resign?

It doesn't make sense for the Orioles.

[McLovin]

I'm really fine with seeing if Snyder might be the next A-Gon.

[MemorialStadKid]

Quoted for patent falsehood.

Is it a falsehood when many of these posts about why we shouldn't have gotten Lackey comes down to the fact that we supposedly have no payroll flexibility and we can't "throw money at free agents like the Red Sox and the Yankees?"

Look through this very thread to see that sentiment for yourself. I don't need to prove anything that your very own eyes can see.

MSK

[Sports Guy]

Why don't people understand that we won't have to empty out the farm to acquire a guy that fills a clear and present need for the team so that we can improve?

You have to trade 4-5 of your best prospects. Not cleaning out your system but getting rid of the best guys and setting yourself back.

The mix up in communication here happens when we assume that we don't have money to extend him and also lock up our young guys because we are under the impression that the Orioles have no financial freedom to operate.

Not at all..The confusion is people who don't understand the game and what these guys are worth...people that can't analyze stats and people who don't seem to understand that you don't pay up for guys after career years.

[scottbbfm]

If you read the report, it states that Ellsbury and Buckholz are possible chips. I'd be very hesitant to trade Ellsbury and his 70 SB's. The Red Sox turned the corner as a franchise when they finally stopped building their team to fit fenway and just built a good baseball team. A move like that would be a step backwards IMO unless he signed an immediate extension. BUT I doubt he signs an extension without restructuring his salary over the next 2 seasons. Defeating the purpose of freeing up other resources and having a top 5 hitter on the [relative] cheap for 2 years.

I don't see this deal going through if its just Theo running the show. If Luccino steps in you never know.

[waroriole]

Quoted for patent falsehood.

But that is his M.O. It's easier to argue against made up extreme positions than to try to think rationally. I've asked him plenty of times to show us how we could go spend (or trade) for big names and still have the money to sign a FA when we need one, and extend our soon to be arbitration eligible young guys. I've got the same response that Lucky Jim did when he asked for the group of people who are opposed to doing anything.

[TonySoprano]

Now it's time for the Orioles to make some headlines - way past time, really.

And here's the first thing they should do: Go get Adrian Gonzalez, the San Diego Padres' slugging first baseman.

The Padres are willing to part with him, since he has only two years left on his contract and they're not sure they can afford to re-sign him, especially with so many other holes to fill.

But the guy's a terrific player. He hit 40 homers and drove in 99 runs last year. Over the past four seasons, he has hit 130 homers and driven in 400 runs. And he's a two-time Gold Glove Award winner at first.

Did I mention he's only 27? In short, he's everything the Orioles desperately need.

Now they should go get him. No excuses. They should sign this guy and give their long-suffering fans an early Christmas present.

MacPhail keeps saying he doesn't want to trade top prospects to fill holes in the Orioles' lineup.

Oh, yeah? Why not?

Is there some sort of secret baseball commandment that forbids it?

source - Kevin Cowherd, Balt. Sun