Have we been screwed over by the umps more than the average team?

[ElToro75]

As for the Yankees players celebrating after the play, what do you want ARod to do? They're in a pennant race, and catching up to the Red Sox. ARod charged in, and got the call. With how some people are saying how close it was, don't you thing that in the heat of the moment, ARod thought his throw beat the runner, as the umpire signaled?

Exactly. Just like when a catcher frames a borderline pitch for the umpire so it "looks" like it was a strike, or when middle infielders make the quick sweep tag at second and hold their glove high up expecting to get the call, same thing.

The other players on the field do their part to sell close plays to the umps as well.

[Zaimoku]

If you are willing to concede and accept an umpire accuracy rate below 100%, then this is precisely the type of call you should expect will occasionally be missed.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here.

No, you're in the American League.

Most of us around here have been watching this crap go on in Yankee Stadium, especially in the late innings, since we were 5 or 6 years old. And for some of the posters, that makes a half a century.

I'm not sure there is a NL equivalent, and living out in the Bay Area, I saw my share with the Giants.

Sorry, but you are both literally and figuratively out of your league in this discussion.

[davearm]

No, you're in the American League.

Most of us around here have been watching this crap go on in Yankee Stadium, especially in the late innings, since we were 5 or 6 years old. And for some of the posters, that makes a half a century.

I'm not sure there is a NL equivalent, and living out in the Bay Area, I saw my share with the Giants.

Sorry, but you are both literally and figuratively out of your league in this discussion.

If I understand you correctly, what you're alledging here is that there exists a collective initiative amongst all 70-something MLB umpires to intentionally and consciously reward the Yankees with every close call.

Is this something that they're taught coming up in umpiring school?

Or perhaps the directive was passed down in a memo from the commissioner's office?

I hope you are able to step back and behold the sheer magnitude of absurdity implicit in that notion. You can't seriously believe this crap.

There is no sinister plot to boost the Yankees and screw the O's, people.

[Zaimoku]

If I understand you correctly, what you're alledging here is that there exists a collective initiative amongst all 70-something MLB umpires to intentionally and consciously reward the Yankees with every close call.

You don't understand me correctly. In fact, you're putting words into my mouth.

Would you deny that some veteran players, both pitchers and hitters, get calls that rookies don't get, regardless of team?

Since it's obvious to everyone that they do, you are going to have to argue that umpire favoritism is applied only to individuals and not teams.

We've been watching this for decades. Why do you think even baseball people say, "The hardest outs in baseball are in the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings at Yankees Stadium"? I heard a manager quoted saying it on a non-Orioles broadcast this year.

People detest the Yankees for several reasons--it isn't just simple sour grapes for them winning all the time.

You're using theory and message board casuistry (and not very well, either).

We're using eyesight based on experience, which in some cases might go back to before you were born.

I'm serious. You're out of your league in this discussion. If you don't want to admit it, c'est la vie, but we all know it.

[beaner]

Exactly, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Yankees have better players year after year. Thank god they have the umps on their side. From 1981-1994 Major League Baseball decided to scrap the rule that the Yankees must appear in the playoffs every year. Everyone always forgets about those years while waxing about conspiracy theories and such.

Actually I know the secret as to why the Yankees win every year.....see below:

They're really good.

[davearm]

You don't understand me correctly. In fact, you're putting words into my mouth.

Would you deny that some veteran players, both pitchers and hitters, get calls that rookies don't get, regardless of team?

Since it's obvious to everyone that they do, you are going to have to argue that umpire favoritism is applied only to individuals and not teams.

We've been watching this for decades. Why do you think even baseball people say, "The hardest outs in baseball are in the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings at Yankees Stadium"? I heard a manager quoted saying it on a non-Orioles broadcast this year.

People detest the Yankees for several reasons--it isn't just simple sour grapes for them winning all the time.

You're using theory and message board casuistry (and not very well, either).

We're using eyesight based on experience, which in some cases might go back to before you were born.

I'm serious. You're out of your league in this discussion. If you don't want to admit it, c'est la vie, but we all know it.

How can you sit here and say that I'm putting words in your mouth, and then essentially regurgitate what I just said?!?!

Are you or are you not arguing that there is a premeditated, collective effort on the part of major league umpires to show favortism toward the New York Yankees? Yes or no?

If no, then what is the answer to your question about the hardest outs in baseball, and what was the point of asking the question in the first place?

If yes, then why not just admit you believe there's some secret conspiracy going on here? You're most certainly implying it.

[Zaimoku]

If yes, then why not just admit you believe there's some secret conspiracy going on here? You're most certainly implying it.

Is there some secret conspiracy between umpires to give veterans calls they don't give rookies? You're most certainly accepting it, particularly as you fail to address it. Implicit agreement.

Look, I'm not Sports Guy, so I'm not going to around and around with you about it. You want to talk about the ivy on Wrigley Field walls, or wind-blown home runs or whatever, fine, I'll take your word for it, but you're just not up to speed on this.

Your argument is not even a good one, either. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy, and it doesn't have to be secret.

Is there some "secret conspiracy" in the NFL and the NBA to let certain fouls go uncalled late in games, particularly in playoff games, and just "let the players play"?

[davearm]

Is there some secret conspiracy between umpires to give veterans calls they don't give rookies? You're most certainly accepting it, particularly as you fail to address it. Implicit agreement.

I most certainly DO NOT agree with that premise, at least as it pertains to the play in question here. There is absolutely not agreement, implicit or otherwise.

What you will occasionally see is a veteran pitcher get a strike call that a rookie wouldn't get, or a veteran batter get a ball call that a rookie would get rung up on.

That's different, and here's why. We know that balls and strikes are not called to the letter of the rulebook, and each ump has his own strikezone, according to his own personal interpretation. In this regard, the issue is not accuracy, but consistency.

On every other call on the baseball field, save for the balk call, there is no interpretation involved whatsoever. On safe/out judgements, tag/no tag judgements, trap/catch judgements, fair/foul judgements, HR/not HR judgements, etc. etc., the only issue is accuracy.

The guys in blue call those plays exactly as they see them, without regard for what teams and what individuals are involved; there is zero of the veteran and/or team bias that you're alledging.

So if you want to argue that Andy Pettitte gets all of the outside corner plus a little extra, I'd agree, but point out that so do guys like Glavine, Maddux, etc. If the Yanks benefit from this phenomenon more than other teams, that's only because their entire roster is filled with the established veterans that have "earned" those borderline ball/strike calls.

However the second you try and take that same principle out onto the basepaths, or to the infield or outfield, I'm going to disagree vehemently. And as I mentioned, the play that spawned this entire discussion was a bang-bang play at first base. Umpire bias or favortism or whatever had nothing to do with that call.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Waaayyy too much to be an umpire, obviously.

LOL:D !!

I may not be an expert but I have never seen so many bad calls by umps as I have for the Os this year.

How can I get into ump school?

[mikezpen]

Umps' calls always look bad for a losing team. The Orioles have lost about 80 one-and-two-run games, and every call going against them seems to hurt.But why s/the umpires try to stick it to Baltimore?

[Zaimoku]

And as I mentioned, the play that spawned this entire discussion was a bang-bang play at first base. Umpire bias or favortism or whatever had nothing to do with that call.

However, that's not what I'm talking about. For starters, I'm talking about the entire AB. I'm talking about strike one on a shoulder high pitch. I'm talking strike two on a ball below the knees. THEN came the bang-bang play at first.

And of course, Payton was thrown out of the game three innings before for being upset over calls.

Dude, you just haven't seen enough Yankee games to know.

[davearm]

However, that's not what I'm talking about. For starters, I'm talking about the entire AB. I'm talking about strike one on a shoulder high pitch. I'm talking strike two on a ball below the knees. THEN came the bang-bang play at first.

And of course, Payton was thrown out of the game three innings before for being upset over calls.

Dude, you just haven't seen enough Yankee games to know.

LOL, you backpedal better than Champ Bailey.

[IHeartMASN]

How can you sit here and say that I'm putting words in your mouth, and then essentially regurgitate what I just said?!?!

Are you or are you not arguing that there is a premeditated, collective effort on the part of major league umpires to show favortism toward the New York Yankees? Yes or no?

If no, then what is the answer to your question about the hardest outs in baseball, and what was the point of asking the question in the first place?

If yes, then why not just admit you believe there's some secret conspiracy going on here? You're most certainly implying it.

It's not premeditated. It's not a conspiracy. It's not even spoken. It's human nature on the part of the umpire.

The game is close, the play is bang-bang. Could go either way.

One team is the Yankees, the other team isn't. That call will go Yankees way more often than not. The reason for it is as different as the umpire who makes it. The young ones are caught up in the Yankee mystique, Yankee stadium, the fans, whatever. With the veterans, we get "big leagued". The Yanks get the breaks, everyone else is on their own. Just like Greg Maddux will get strikes Garret Olson can only dream of.

Of course, you can come back and say "do they teach this in umps school?" or whatever and you'll think you have a winning argument. But you can't tell me you watch a game against the Yanks, see a close play and feel in the pit of your stomach that it's going to go against us because it's against the MFY and not the Royals.

This isn't why the Yanks win. They are a good team. It's just another edge and it's not right.

[beaner]

I can't stomach reading the whole thread so I just read the last page to get a feel for it. This has been a pet peeve of mine for some time. No, not the O's getting hosed on calls, but the perception that they get hosed on calls. No one ever remembers all of the calls that go our way, just the ones that go against us. I don't have time to read game threads anymore but inevitably almost eveyone would feature some ranting about the strike zone or some calls being unfair towards the O's. This is just the whiny musings of the sad fans of a losing team. Nothing more. For the most part, calls even out but there most certainly is no bias on the part of the umps against the O's, IMO.

Great post ! Thank you for speaking the truth!!! This is a really sad attempt in placing blame on anyone other than the team. And conversely not giving credit to the Yankees for being a damn good team the past 12 years.

[Zaimoku]

Great post ! Thank you for speaking the truth!!! This is a really sad attempt in placing blame on anyone other than the team. And conversely not giving credit to the Yankees for being a damn good team the past 12 years.

Nowhere have I said that the umpires have it in for the Orioles. I am not talking about 12 years, I am talking about a half century, at least.

The Yankees usually get the close calls in late innings in Yankee Stadium, no matter who they play, and they have for decades.