Have we been screwed over by the umps more than the average team?

[blueberryale77]

I think this year really stand out as one in which the umpires have made some really terrible calls that possibly were outcome-determinative against the O's. We'd still be well under .500 even without those calls. But it is pretty annoying.

We would still be well under .500, but somewhat less frustrated. Also, some of our players might have significantly better personal statistics if umpires were both competent and not biased in favor of better teams. How many called strike threes has Brian Roberts taken that were really balls? Nick Markakis is right behind him in that category. If they finish with averages just below .300, bad/biased umpiring had a hand in that. Those two have played hard and well all year. They don't deserve to get dumped on because their team stinks.

[DrungoHazewood]

Seriously, are we just saps? Because it seems like there have been more than a "normal" number of blown calls against us. Is it just me?

Maybe.

And in other related news the odometer in my flaming, twisted, wreck of a car is off by 2%.

[Sports Guy]

Did you hear Palmer last night?

Called them the worst crew in baseball....Was just hammering them all night long...It was pretty funny.

[davearm]

Anyone that says that play at first with Roberts last night "wasn't even close," like the O's announcer did, is downright loony. That was as close as it gets. I had to watch the replay from the 3B camera angle 8 or 10 times before I was convinced Roberts beat the throw... by an eyelash.

And for those claiming, "the O's get screwed by the umps more than any team in baseball," I'd be interested to see your full list.

[Since'54]

I was at the game last night so I was witness to some of these dubious calls. Just wanted the opinions of someone who saw them on TV...

A)What did you think of the 'strike him out, throw him out' double play where payton got ejected? From my angle it was tough to tell where the pitch ended up, but if Jay was that animated about it I guessed it wasn't even close?

B) Roberts was definitely safe in the 8th...woulda been interesting to see how Joba would have pitched while trying to hold him at first.

C) I also thought there was a botched double play by the umps...I can't remember which inning, but I felt Mentcaveitch (sic) had been pulled off the bag.

D) Not an ump issue, but there was a ball hit by Tejada (with Mora on first)that Jeter booted but stuck with and threw him out...was he not running hard out of the box?

Basically I felt the umps stole an innings worth of outs from us, so you can't be surprised we lost...too bad we wasted a gem by Brian Burres.

There was a re-play that showed Tejada going down to first. After a step or two he looked at third and saw Rodriguez bobble the ball and took off hard. He just didn't get there in time. In fairness, Rodrigues did a Brooks Robinson on the play.

[blueberryale77]

Anyone that says that play at first with Roberts last night "wasn't even close," like the O's announcer did, is downright loony. That was as close as it gets. I had to watch the replay from the 3B camera angle 8 or 10 times before I was convinced Roberts beat the throw... by an eyelash.

And for those claiming, "the O's get screwed by the umps more than any team in baseball," I'd be interested to see your full list.

Andy Pettitte had a better view than the third base camera and every reason to want Roberts to be out and he admitted they got a gift on that call. He was past the base when Mientkeiwicz caught the ball.

[davearm]

Andy Pettitte had a better view than the third base camera and every reason to want Roberts to be out and he admitted they got a gift on that call. He was past the base when Mientkeiwicz caught the ball.

Past the base? Seriously?

You must be looking at a different play. The one I saw was as close as can be, and you'd have to see the thing a few times just to be convinced Roberts actually was safe. And he most certainly was not "past the base" when the ball arrived. That's flat out ludicrous.

[Frobby]

Past the base? Seriously?

You must be looking at a different play. The one I saw was as close as can be, and you'd have to see the thing a few times just to be convinced Roberts actually was safe. And he most certainly was not "past the base" when the ball arrived. That's flat out ludicrous.

Well, you can see the play right here on this thread. I didn't see the game last night, but the ump's call was clearly wrong, and it wasn't particularly close. "As close as can be?" Not hardly. "Past the base" might be a slight exaggeration, but it sure doesn't take super slo-mo to see the runner was safe.

[davearm]

Well, you can see the play right here on this thread. I didn't see the game last night, but the ump's call was clearly wrong, and it wasn't particularly close. "As close as can be?" Not hardly. "Past the base" might be a slight exaggeration, but it sure doesn't take super slo-mo to see the runner was safe.

I've looked at the video in this thread. Over and over, actually, and using liberal use of the pause button. It's a really freaking close play, and it absolutely does take super slo-mo to see the runner was safe.

As best I can determine, Roberts' foot touches the bag when the ball is about one foot from Mienkiewicz's glove. When the ball reaches Mienkiewicz's glove, Roberts' leg is just barely beginning to compress from the impact with the base.

A ball thrown at 70 MPH takes 0.00974 seconds to travel one foot.

So by my estimation, Roberts beat the play by about one one-hundredth of a second.

If that isn't particularly close, then I don't know what is.

[Spoonless]

I've looked at the video in this thread. Over and over, actually, and using liberal use of the pause button. It's a really freaking close play, and it absolutely does take super slo-mo to see the runner was safe.

As best I can determine, Roberts' foot touches the bag when the ball is about one foot from Mienkiewicz's glove. When the ball reaches Mienkiewicz's glove, Roberts' leg is just barely beginning to compress from the impact with the base.

A ball thrown at 70 MPH takes 0.00974 seconds to travel one foot.

So by my estimation, Roberts beat the play by about one one-hundredth of a second.

If that isn't particularly close, then I don't know what is.

The thing is, as an umpire, you're supposed to have a trained eye. You're supposed to get these calls right. I've seen closer calls made correctly, and this call in particular doesn't appear to be something a trained ML umpire should miss.

And, if you watch it, Roberts is pulling up when the 1B catches the ball. He's not pulling up unless he's already hit the bag.

[davearm]

The thing is, as an umpire, you're supposed to have a trained eye. You're supposed to get these calls right. I've seen closer calls made correctly, and this call in particular doesn't appear to be something a trained ML umpire should miss.

And, if you watch it, Roberts is pulling up when the 1B catches the ball. He's not pulling up unless he's already hit the bag.

If you are willing to concede and accept an umpire accuracy rate below 100%, then this is precisely the type of call you should expect will occasionally be missed.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here.

[Spoonless]

If you are willing to concede and accept an umpire accuracy rate below 100%, then this is precisely the type of call you should expect will occasionally be missed.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here.

I'm saying that it looks like a call that should be made correctly, and that I've seen closer plays called correctly, and a trained professional umpire should be calling this correctly. And just because I allow that umpires will miss calls doesn't mean I "accept" that. I don't have a choice but to go with it. Listen to how fast the announcers reacted to that call. It was instant. The umpire got the call wrong, and it wasn't close enough that there seemed to be much question about it to quite a few people watching the game, apparently including Andy Pettite.

[Tx Oriole]

No. I do believe that a guy like Roger Clemens is going to get a strike called on a close pitch where Cabrera and the like wont.

[davearm]

I'm saying that it looks like a call that should be made correctly, and that I've seen closer plays called correctly, and a trained professional umpire should be calling this correctly. And just because I allow that umpires will miss calls doesn't mean I "accept" that. I don't have a choice but to go with it. Listen to how fast the announcers reacted to that call. It was instant. The umpire got the call wrong, and it wasn't close enough that there seemed to be much question about it to quite a few people watching the game, apparently including Andy Pettite.

Every call should be made correctly.

But we know the system is not perfect, therefore the reality we live with is that every call will not be made correctly.

And the calls that are missed are the bang-bang ones just like this.

So if you can't live with this call being missed, then you can't live with the system we've got.

[Spoonless]

Every call should be made correctly.

But we know the system is not perfect, therefore the reality we live with is that every call will not be made correctly.

And the calls that are missed are the bang-bang ones just like this.

So if you can't live with this call being missed, then you can't live with the system we've got.

But you could say that about any missed call. I don't understand what's so "Twilight Zone" about a bunch of fans of a team being upset over missed calls against that team. Then again, maybe when you watch the Cubs play, and calls get blown against them, you just go "oh well, since I accept that the human error involved in officiating baseball games results in a less than 100% accuracy rating, that's the way it goes" and are perfectly content with it.

I said before that I think that the fact that this is a losing team, blown calls are going to look more egregious against us.

That play from the game was a bad call, and one that should be made. We should expect umpires to make the correct call 100% of the time. That's why it's a mistake when they get the call wrong. If we don't hold them up to a ridiculously high standard, then why bother have them out there? Why not ask the average fan in the crowd. Umpires are supposed to be better than the average person at discerning the correct call.