Blame MacPhail

[PrivateO]

Right. Cause Angelos would hate a sold out OPACY every night with a winner on the field. I mean, he'd make less money that way.

Well of course. It's not like these "fans in the stands" would be buying concessions, memorabilia, or going to the team's shop.

There's your flaw JTrea. If it's about money (which you obviously think it is), you build a successful team. More wins/successful team = more money for the owner.

[JTrea81]

Wasn't it Peter Angelos who made sure we signed Matt Wieters? Is this part of the facade as well? Theres teams in our situation who aren't willing to draft a player that will cost big money, and I know theres instances where we have, but this is one where he made sure the money was spent.

Yes this is part of the facade, just like the extension of Markakis and Roberts. The plan has to have young hyped players if it is going to be sold.

If Angelos hadn't approved those moves, fans would seriously question where the Orioles were heading. Instead they fell right in line with the plan...

[justcompete]

You're on a roll. I do have an informal list in my head of the folks that I think have something worthwhile to say. I'd bet most of us do. You're clearly intelligent so I'm surprised that you act like this is a crazy idea or a bad thing. You don't have this list? You read everyone's stuff equally?

New posters do emerge here and get respect. I can name lots of them. I don't dismiss people due to lack of posts.

I do spend less time reading posts by some people due to what I judge to be a lack of intelligence or thought put into their posts. I may be wrong on some and miss some good stuff, but I've got limited time and I've only got my instincts to guide me, same as anyone. Do you think this is an awful thing?

Admittedly, I am being a bit harsh in my post but no I do not value one poster's opinion over anothers because he has earned some sort of respect. I take each post on its own merits. I think SG's is very intelligent on the makeup of the team.....then I read his 87 different 3 team trades and shake my head.

Each post stands on it own merit. Jtrea bashing the FO is not as bad as other posters bashing Jtrea because he is Jtrea. It happens over and over and I would rather take part in the discussion of the merits of the post then the merits of the poster. When Frobby posted some of his rock bottom thoughts this weekend he got a free pass. Trea would have been buried.

Do I think its awful, I think you should feed your fandom however you see fit. If you respect Frobby/MM/SG/Glory Days more then Jtrea thats great but give the thread a chance to discuss the topic.

Jtrea points some blame on AM, I agree he needs to take some accountability, if that is for not signing Tex, or Holliday or trading for Agon is incidental to point this is AM product and the product stinks. If AM thought he didn't need/want/or it didn't make sense to get those SPECIFIC players I am fine with that, just take responsibility for the team he built and thought was entering the next phase. Right now, as of today, AM product is terrible.

[JTrea81]

There's your flaw JTrea. If it's about money (which you obviously think it is), you build a successful team. More wins/successful team = more money for the owner.

I don't think Angelos thinks this way.

He doesn't want to spend to make money because he's been burned by doing that in the past. Instead he wants to spend as little as possible, thus it's less of a risk and he can still make a healthy profit.

It's MacPhail's job to convince him otherwise, and he hasn't done it.

[PrivateO]

I don't think Angelos thinks this way.

He doesn't want to spend to make money because he's been burned by doing that in the past. Instead he wants to spend as little as possible, thus it's less of a risk and he can still make a healthy profit.

It's MacPhail's job to convince him otherwise, and he hasn't done it.

I'm guessing you're referring to Albert Belle, and then later, Tejada, Palmeiro, and Lopez?

Let us not forget the pre-All Star Break success that the Orioles had in 2005. The stands were filled, much more so than they have been in recent years. Fans were enthused with the success of the team. They were talking about the playoffs already.

But, I don't think spending his money on those 3 players "burned" him. He made money off it. (Now obviously, the team went into a downward spiral later in the year, but purely from the financial argument that we're discussing, I do not consider these 3 players a bad investment by Angelos.)

[SrMeowMeow]

It is a crime that you are still allowed to post here, JTrea.

[Sports Guy]

It is a crime that you are still allowed to post here, JTrea.

So uncalled for.

[SilentJames]

J people would take you more seriously if you hadn't been saying the same thing for two years since you had your lil heart broken. Plus, everyone here is pretty sure you would be posting the exact same thing of the Orioles were five games under rather than now.

[Moose Milligan]

You just couldn't resist, could you?

I pulled myself out of the vortex finally, but man is it easy to get pulled back in. He sounds like he can be reasoned with, doesn't he? It is just freaky.

I took him off monkeylist cause I just had to see what this thread was about. I wasn't surprised, nor should have I been surprised, either.

And back he goes. It's great to be able to turn him on and off like that.

I do want to start a charity drive of sorts, though. Maybe some OHers could get together, raise some money and buy El Trea a MLB extra innings package or something so he could actually watch the games. I'm not saying he can't afford it, seeing as he makes a pilgrimage to OPACY every year and can afford a premium membership here. He just chooses not to, for whatever reason.

[SrMeowMeow]

So uncalled for.

Excuse me? Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is not legally protected by free speech for a reason. The parallel is obvious.

[TonySoprano]

We interrupt the personality trashing discussion to bring you a brief news announcement.

MacPhail is the architect of this team. Does he deserve all the blame? No, no one does in a situation like this. He does deserve a share of the blame due to decisions he made, in the same way he gets credit for the decisions he made that worked.

We now return to the bash session already in progress.

Why this thread's still open.....??????

[El Gordo]

Yeh, there are folks on here who run circles around me on any number of subjects. From a pure brainpower perspective, I'd put LuckyJim at the head of the class but I'm sure he runs into folks who are smarter than himself daily. Baltimoron used to be the smartest guy on the board IMO and he left in frustration. What does that tell us?

I met I guy who was smarter than me once. His name is Leon Katz. Can happen to anyone. :laughlol:Yeah, I miss the old 'moron. One of the few who wasn't. Haven't seen much of 1970, either....:scratchchinhmm:

[MemorialStadKid]

I do not agree with all of it but its just easier to attack the poster, join in and you get your membership upgraded to Vatech's list of competent posters.

There's a set group of dudes that believe they have the lock on all "intellectual discourse" on the site and anyone that posts thoughts and/or feelings outside of the umbrella of what they consider to be "legitimate" dialogue is quickly lambasted and ridiculed.

It happens here all the time, and its funny to me, but I can see how it can be frustrating and ridiculous to constantly be challenged for just posting your feelings on a MESSAGE BOARD.

Its a MESSAGE BOARD, not "me and a few of my sabermetric demagogue online cohorts" discussion site.

Like I said, its funny to me, but some folks let their passions get to them, and I have no right to say whether or not its "legit" subject matter for the Orioles Hangout.

MSK

[El Gordo]

J people would take you more seriously if you hadn't been saying the same thing for two years since you had your lil heart broken. Plus, everyone here is pretty sure you would be posting the exact same thing of the Orioles were five games under rather than now.

Sadly, if people didn't take him so seriously this thread wouldn't be this long.

[geschinger]

MacPhail could have requested what it would take to sign this premium players, but he hasn't.

He needs to change his ways.

If Angelos were to say no, then it would be his fault. But so far Angelos hasn't had to say no that we know of...

MacPhail is enabling Angelos, thus it is his fault.

The huge flaw in this thinking is that signing premium (priced) free agents rarely works out in the team's favor over the long term. MacPhail wants to build for long term success. Unless you have a Yankeesesque payroll long term success is not built upon signing premium (priced) free agents.

If you want the Orioles to be successful you shouldn't want him to change his ways towards FA and start taking what are bad risks but rather that he be more aggressive in getting more young talent in the organization at a quicker pace.