The Orioles, the media and the Hangout

[clarence]

With all of the discussion and anticipation about what Tony is going to reveal in his state of Orioles piece, it got me wondering about my expectations of this site, the media, the O's, etc.

After spending eight years in minor league sports, I understand the basic laziness and self-importance that most reporters bring to the job. Almost all of the newspaper guys I dealt with were really sad people.

I don't know the guys with the Sun or with MASN, so I won't place them in that category, but you really have to question the ability of the Sun to report on what is really going on with the O's. Roch was there recently, so he shouldn't be given a free pass since he isn't there anymore.

It's easy for these guys to show up and report about what they see on the field. Heck, we can get it instantly from mlb.com or other sources. We see it with our own eyes. It isn't like the days of oldfan#5 ()when the radio and beat writers were the only way a fan could usually follow a team. Schmuck and Roch basically report the same exact thing on their blogs everyday, and almost all of it has already been discussed on here. Not really sure why they are necessary.

Now we've got some clown named Gould preaching about taking it easy on Hobgood. You know who I have a bigger problem with than Hobgood? Some guy named Gould. Why doesn't Gould get off his butt, write something other than what some p.r. person has probably handed him in the form of notes, and do some in-depth research into why a once proud franchise is now the laughing stock of professional sports.

When have we seen the type of information in the Sun that we seem to get on here? What is really going on in the Warehouse, on the farm, internationally. If these guys weren't so lazy, they wouldn't settle for the answers they've been given. It is obvious to everyone the answers aren't true, the product and results bear this out.

Look, I don't really understand Tony's role in all of this. I pay for this site because I have learned more about baseball than I thought I would ever know from some of the posters. I get better coverage of the minor league system than I can get anywhere else. Also, I enjoy the rankings of prospects and draft discussions. I don't need a game recap, again, it's available in a hundred places, I don't think we get that much major league breaking news on here and I don't need it. I can't figure out why Tony is having to cover his tracks and protect sources. Sources for what? Tony seems to be a good talent evaluator with his own eyes. I guess there are Orioles/ Hangout relationships that I don't understand.

Regardless, what Tony is doing is something the Sun should be doing. It is Schmuck and all the other guys over there who get paid to cover the Orioles responsibility. But they aren't going to rock the boat. They aren't journalists, that would require work, they are reporters who want to do the minimum and think they are witty in the process.

[TGO]

Is it really necessary to call people clowns and lazy? A serious discussion of the sports media in Baltimore could be worthwhile, and you have a few interesting points, but the name calling is a bit much.

[tvz1997]

Yeah, it is pretty bad when the Sun's biggest "bombshell" about this team are some quotes hand-fed to them by Markakis, basically stating what everybody already knew.

I think Jeff Zrebiec and Roch are good, but they are too close to the team to do what you are asking.

Investigative journalism by local newspapers has been spiralling downward for years and is increasingly being farmed out to nonprofit groups or only handled by bloggers. In a way, Tony being the one to finally break the real story would fit in rather nicely to the way the news is being found and dispersed today.

[murrayfan420]

Very well said. A great example is the disparity of scouts when comparing other AL East teams to the Orioles. I should have read that in a newspaper/blog and not a message baord.

[clarence]

Is it really necessary to call people clowns and lazy? A serious discussion of the sports media in Baltimore could be worthwhile, and you have a few interesting points, but the name calling is a bit much.

You got a problem with the word "clowns"? I apologize.

Lazy? I will stand behind this one. I spent close to a decade watching up close the work of the print media. Ninety percent of what they report comes directly from press notes or the desk of some p.r. person who never gets the credit. They want the majority of their work done for them. You want to say you don't think it is lazy that we haven't seem some in-depth looks into the franchise from the Sun?

Whatever. It's not the point of my post.

[flashjordnk]

Yeah, it is pretty bad when the Sun's biggest "bombshell" about this team are some quotes hand-fed to them by Markakis, basically stating what everybody already knew.

I think Jeff Zrebiec and Roch are good, but they are too close to the team to do what you are asking.

Investigative journalism by local newspapers has been spiralling downward for years and is increasingly being farmed out to nonprofit groups or only handled by bloggers. In a way, Tony being the one to finally break the real story would fit in rather nicely to the way the news is being found and dispersed today.

This is a double edged sword sometimes though. Because getting close sometimes means not burning bridges. And if you want to protect your job and yourself long term it can be difficult to gain some of this information.

Sometimes I don't think it's so cut and dry when it comes to investigative reporting. I for one am happy about all the sources I see, the more the better. And even if some of them are connected to the Sun I still think the more people that are talking and the more information that's out there the better off we are.

The OP seems to me to need to get off his high horse while he's busy accusing everyone of not doing their jobs then, and make sure he's filling in the gaps. It always seems easy to criticize, especially the media or decisions so magnified by the media. But sometimes when it comes time to do something it's not as easy as just sounding off on people and saying they aren't doing their jobs.

[mcgraw238]

Look, I don't really understand Tony's role in all of this. I pay for this site because I have learned more about baseball than I thought I would ever know from some of the posters. I get better coverage of the minor league system than I can get anywhere else. Also, I enjoy the rankings of prospects and draft discussions. I don't need a game recap, again, it's available in a hundred places, I don't think we get that much major league breaking news on here and I don't need it. I can't figure out why Tony is having to cover his tracks and protect sources. Sources for what? Tony seems to be a good talent evaluator with his own eyes. I guess there are Orioles/ Hangout relationships that I don't understand.

I feel sorry for you if you can't grasp this simple concept. I get what your saying but what is going on with the franchise is nothing new. Your asking guys to write something that has been written before. What's the point in that?

Perhaps you can start with this one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49984-2005Jan30.html

Keep searching...There's more out there.

[Birds of B'more]

When have we seen the type of information in the Sun that we seem to get on here? What is really going on in the Warehouse, on the farm, internationally. If these guys weren't so lazy, they wouldn't settle for the answers they've been given. It is obvious to everyone the answers aren't true, the product and results bear this out.

Look, I don't really understand Tony's role in all of this. I pay for this site because I have learned more about baseball than I thought I would ever know from some of the posters. I get better coverage of the minor league system than I can get anywhere else. Also, I enjoy the rankings of prospects and draft discussions. I don't need a game recap, again, it's available in a hundred places, I don't think we get that much major league breaking news on here and I don't need it. I can't figure out why Tony is having to cover his tracks and protect sources. Sources for what? Tony seems to be a good talent evaluator with his own eyes. I guess there are Orioles/ Hangout relationships that I don't understand.

Regardless, what Tony is doing is something the Sun should be doing. It is Schmuck and all the other guys over there who get paid to cover the Orioles responsibility. But they aren't going to rock the boat. They aren't journalists, that would require work, they are reporters who want to do the minimum and think they are witty in the process.

We don't hear about what is going on in the Warehouse because the Orioles give little access to the media with regards to that. The Sun reports a good bit on what's happening on the farm. We don't hear anything about what is happening internationally because, sadly, I don't think there actually is anything going on internationally with the Orioles.

As for Tony's upcoming piece, it doesn't sound like something that the Orioles would never make public on their own. It would appear Tony has a source (or several) and he wants to be sure to protect their identity because if they were to go on record with what they're telling him they might lose their job. Getting back to The Sun, maybe no one there has the same contacts Tony does who are willing to speak to some of the issues.

[Peace21]

Clarence money is a very powerful thing. People don't want to say the wrong thing or go over board on something, i.e. what Tony is doing, and risk losing a credential and a paycheck to put food on the table. It isn't worth it to guys like Roch and Schmuck to investigate and back stab people that are paying them.

[JackO]

With all of the discussion and anticipation about what Tony is going to reveal in his state of Orioles piece, it got me wondering about my expectations of this site, the media, the O's, etc.

After spending eight years in minor league sports, I understand the basic laziness and self-importance that most reporters bring to the job. Almost all of the newspaper guys I dealt with were really sad people.

I don't know the guys with the Sun or with MASN, so I won't place them in that category, but you really have to question the ability of the Sun to report on what is really going on with the O's. Roch was there recently, so he shouldn't be given a free pass since he isn't there anymore.

It's easy for these guys to show up and report about what they see on the field. Heck, we can get it instantly from mlb.com or other sources. We see it with our own eyes. It isn't like the days of oldfan#5 ()when the radio and beat writers were the only way a fan could usually follow a team. Schmuck and Roch basically report the same exact thing on their blogs everyday, and almost all of it has already been discussed on here. Not really sure why they are necessary.

Now we've got some clown named Gould preaching about taking it easy on Hobgood. You know who I have a bigger problem with than Hobgood? Some guy named Gould. Why doesn't Gould get off his butt, write something other than what some p.r. person has probably handed him in the form of notes, and do some in-depth research into why a once proud franchise is now the laughing stock of professional sports.

When have we seen the type of information in the Sun that we seem to get on here? What is really going on in the Warehouse, on the farm, internationally. If these guys weren't so lazy, they wouldn't settle for the answers they've been given. It is obvious to everyone the answers aren't true, the product and results bear this out.

Look, I don't really understand Tony's role in all of this. I pay for this site because I have learned more about baseball than I thought I would ever know from some of the posters. I get better coverage of the minor league system than I can get anywhere else. Also, I enjoy the rankings of prospects and draft discussions. I don't need a game recap, again, it's available in a hundred places, I don't think we get that much major league breaking news on here and I don't need it. I can't figure out why Tony is having to cover his tracks and protect sources. Sources for what? Tony seems to be a good talent evaluator with his own eyes. I guess there are Orioles/ Hangout relationships that I don't understand.

Regardless, what Tony is doing is something the Sun should be doing. It is Schmuck and all the other guys over there who get paid to cover the Orioles responsibility. But they aren't going to rock the boat. They aren't journalists, that would require work, they are reporters who want to do the minimum and think they are witty in the process.

I am sure that Tony's story, whenever it comes out, will be highly entertaining. But, like most of the "insider information" that we get on here, I am sure it will also be full of holes and speculation.

Parts of whatever he writes I am sure will be spot on and accurate, but it will not go through the same vetting process that anyone who writes for the Sun or any credible news outlet has to endure to make sure that the entirety of the story is accurate.

In the real news world, speculation and rumors are treated as speculation and rumors that must be verified before they are reported as fact. Here on the Hangout -- and in the general world of amateur news -- speculation and rumor play very important roles. They generate conversation among the several hundred of us who visit this site regularly because we want to do just that -- talk about the Orioles.

I can assure you that if there is really a story to whatever Tony will report then The Sun is already on it, especially because there has been no secret here that Tony is working on something that involves dysfunction and unrest in the front office. And any decent professional journalist would be damned if he was scooped by an amateur news site, especially when that amateur news site has tipped its hand.

Still, like the rest of us, i am still looking forward to whatever Tony has to write.

But, hey, I am sure that there is some amateur that can do whatever job it is that you do better than you do it for free.

signed --

working journalist.

[clarence]

I feel sorry for you if you can't grasp this simple concept. I get what your saying but what is going on with the franchise is nothing new. Your asking guys to write something that has been written before. What's the point in that?

Perhaps you can start with this one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49984-2005Jan30.html

Keep searching...There's more out there.

Trust me, I don't need you to feel sorry for me, I'm fine.

I don't understand what information we get on here that is insider info. I mean, we get like one interview a year with Jordan and what else? I love this site, I'm not looking for some secret O's society. I don't understand all the secrecy, how is that hard to grasp.

[JackO]

Clarence money is a very powerful thing. People don't want to say the wrong thing or go over board on something, i.e. what Tony is doing, and risk losing a credential and a paycheck to put food on the table. It isn't worth it to guys like Roch and Schmuck to investigate and back stab people that are paying them.

Actually, in this case, Tony is making a wise journalistic decision. You don't burn sources because when you burn a source you lose a source.

But if you can tell me which disgruntled mid-level employee in the warehouse or which ex-employee of the O's exactly is paying Peter Schmuck not to write negative articles about the team that he has heavily criticized in the past, then perhaps you have a point.

[JackO]

Trust me, I don't need you to feel sorry for me, I'm fine.

I don't understand what information we get on here that is insider info. I mean, we get like one interview a year with Jordan and what else? I love this site, I'm not looking for some secret O's society. I don't understand all the secrecy, how is that hard to grasp.

Tony and John and Greg right now are doing a masterful job of marketing the site to their core audience.

It will be interesting to see if this story is fire-walled behind the Plus-Hangout, meaning that those of us long-time lurkers who post and read for free will finally have to pay the membership fee to read it.

If they are smart, it will be because it might convince a good number of us to finally pay up. Might.

[clarence]

Clarence money is a very powerful thing. People don't want to say the wrong thing or go over board on something, i.e. what Tony is doing, and risk losing a credential and a paycheck to put food on the table. It isn't worth it to guys like Roch and Schmuck to investigate and back stab people that are paying them.

Peace, I understand the money thing and I also know that the Orioles will play hardball with someone like the OH. On the other hand, the can't really bite the hand of the Baltimore Sun, especially in the condition they are in. The Orioles franchise looks at a place like the OH and other internet sites as an irritant, they worry about their relationship with the Sun.

[Slappy]

The best writers do the work and write their honest opinion of the team. Preston is a good example.

Good organizations appreciate the viewpoint, as long as it is fair.

The problem with the Orioles is that they want to keep stuffing skeletons in the closet and pretend nobody sees the 19-51 skull laying in the middle of the floor.