First base in 2012 and beyond

[Crazysilver03]

Before 1994 the Orioles had signed Rafael Palmeiro, Chris Sabo and Lee Smith and they were competitive before the strike with a record of 63-49. The Orioles might have been a playoff team had it not been for the '94 strike.

You are still avoiding the horrible point you made that "every team with a continuing playoff appearance has had stability at 1B."

[El Gordo]

Not that I'm doubting you, but can you show us the math?

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

[Moose Milligan]

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

This is handy, thanks.

So the equivalent of the 1997 teams payroll would be 95 million today.

[DrungoHazewood]

Before 1994 the Orioles had signed Rafael Palmeiro, Chris Sabo and Lee Smith and they were competitive before the strike with a record of 63-49. The Orioles might have been a playoff team had it not been for the '94 strike.

You're absoutely right. Of the 30-some contending teams in modern Oriole history three (not two) had significant contributions from relatively big free agents.

So what's your rebuttal to the fact that the teams of the 60s-80s had essentally no big ticket free agents at all? And that almost all of them had key contributions from players you'd dismiss out of hand? I can almost hear your mocking laughter as the O's bring in weak-hitting utility infielder John Lowenstein to play left field, and I can see the 40-page rant the day they signed 28-year-old Mets/Cards reject Benny Ayala instead of just taking the logical approach by wining and dining Reggie Jackson then handing him a wow offer.

[Satyr3206]

You're absoutely right. Of the 30-some contending teams in modern Oriole history three (not two) had significant contributions from relatively big free agents.

So what's your rebuttal to the fact that the teams of the 60s-80s had essentally no big ticket free agents at all? And that almost all of them had key contributions from players you'd dismiss out of hand? I can almost hear your mocking laughter as the O's bring in weak-hitting utility infielder John Lowenstein to play left field, and I can see the 40-page rant the day they signed 28-year-old Mets/Cards reject Benny Ayala instead of just taking the logical approach by wining and dining Reggie Jackson then handing him a wow offer.

Steve Stone was a pretty good signing too.

[DrungoHazewood]

I will laugh. It's almost like you sandwiched Sabo between Palmeiro and Smith and hoped no one would notice. Sabo played in a whopping total of 68 games with the Orioles and put up a slash line of .256/.320/.465. He was an awesome FA acquisition.

You're sitting here arguing about 3 players tying up 24% of the the Orioles money for the 1994 season and you're acting like it's a good thing that Sabo was a part of that? Chris Sabo would be *almost* like your mid 90's version of Scott Moore. Would you be complaining that he wasn't brought back for the '95 campaign?

Who would your mid 80's man crush be? Al Pardo?

Funny thing is that Lee Smith was 36 years old when the O's signed him, and Sabo was 32 and coming off a string of years where he was basically league-average. Almost guaranteed these signings would have been laughed at as old, declining, non-premium talent that won't help the Orioles contend. The O's even had the audacity to move Sabo from third base to right field to utility player, instead of just shelling out tens of $millions for a real right fielder.

[Moose Milligan]

Funny thing is that Lee Smith was 36 years old when the O's signed him, and Sabo was 32 and coming off a string of years where he was basically league-average. Almost guaranteed these signings would have been laughed at as old, declining, non-premium talent that won't help the Orioles contend. The O's even had the audacity to move Sabo from third base to right field to utility player, instead of just shelling out tens of $millions for a real right fielder.

My memories of Lee Smith were long walks in from the bullpen, an All Star appearance in which he gave up a homer to Fred McGriff a few rough weeks after that and that's pretty much it. It's not like the guy was a mainstay for us.

And Sabo was a joke.

But hey, who cares! We had 3 players tying up almost 25% of our payroll. That's the real reason the Orioles were good that year.

[BrunoCherrytown]

Trea.

The following things need to happen for us to spend moneylike the Red Sox

1) Grow the Baltimore Metro Area to about 15 million people (New England) or at least 4.5 million (Greater Boston). Now, I just got engaged and all and My finace and I can do what we can but that will take a minute.

2) Raise the average ticket price 40%

3) Have an owner whos net worth is around 1.1 BILLION dollars

1.) The major media markets in MASN outnumber NESN by millions in TV households. Harrisburg to Charlotte is much bigger than NESN's reach.

Just run the DMA numbers. BMore and DC combined is right behind Chicago for example at #4 in the nation. You take in Norfolk and Charlotte and Harrisburg, etc etc and then add up all the NESN reach markets and you'll see millions more on our side. I've run it before.

Now Red Sox have more fans - absolutely true. But NESN and MASN run all year on TV. That means it's not just baseball ad revenue. It's year round programming revenue. And better team = better ratings. Nationals get better = better ratings too.

2.) A price rise would be a legit request if they spent money on the team.

3.)

Similarly, Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos had $1.2 billion as of the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans last September, but we estimate his investments outside the team fell at least 30% during the recent market turmoil. That drop kept him off our list of the World's Billionaires in March despite the Orioles' value staying flat at $250 million this year. Angelos' stake in the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN), which broadcasts Orioles and Washington Nationals games, adds millions more to his fortune.

here

So he's got the money too. What he choose to do with it is the part we are debating.

The Orioles can never spend like the Yankees. We all know this. But they can spend like the Red Sox. They actively choose not to.

[Hank Scorpio]

1.) The major media markets in MASN outnumber NESN by millions in TV households. Harrisburg to Charlotte is much bigger than NESN's reach.

Just run the DMA numbers. BMore and DC combined is right behind Chicago for example at #4 in the nation. You take in Norfolk and Charlotte and Harrisburg, etc etc and then add up all the NESN reach markets and you'll see millions more on our side. I've run it before.

Now Red Sox have more fans - absolutely true. But NESN and MASN run all year on TV. That means it's not just baseball ad revenue. It's year round programming revenue. And better team = better ratings. Nationals get better = better ratings too.

2.) A price rise would be a legit request if they spent money on the team.

3.)

here

So he's got the money too. What he choose to do with it is the part we are debating.

The Orioles can never spend like the Yankees. We all know this. But they can spend like the Red Sox. They actively choose not to.

As of right now, they'd spend like the Red Sox and still have less talent.

Winners dollars go a lot further than losers dollars.

[Sports Guy]

When are people going to realize that its not how much you spend but how you spend it?

I would much rather see this team working with a 80-90 million dollar payroll and put in 15-20 million a year in amateur signings.

I think that is a fair and realistic area to be in.

Now, can they go beyond that? Perhaps they can but not quite yet and probably not for another 2-4 years.

[bird watcher]

That's 57M in today's $$$

But the Fed says we are in a deflationary market?/:scratchchinhmm::scratchchinhmm:

:laughlol::laughlol:

[DrungoHazewood]

1.) The major media markets in MASN outnumber NESN by millions in TV households. Harrisburg to Charlotte is much bigger than NESN's reach.

Just run the DMA numbers. BMore and DC combined is right behind Chicago for example at #4 in the nation. You take in Norfolk and Charlotte and Harrisburg, etc etc and then add up all the NESN reach markets and you'll see millions more on our side. I've run it before.

Now Red Sox have more fans - absolutely true. But NESN and MASN run all year on TV. That means it's not just baseball ad revenue. It's year round programming revenue. And better team = better ratings. Nationals get better = better ratings too.

What are the mandatory carrier fees charged by MASN and NESN? And how many households are covered by each? I've never seen anyone suggest that MASN brings in anywhere close to NESN's revenues, and I think it's a little implausible that people in Charlotte are going to pay several dollars per household per month to watch teams that are hundreds of miles further away than the Braves.

And you also have to consider that the Nats and O's divide up the MASN revenues.

I'll agree that there's big potential for MASN. But it's a long, long way from being the revenue generating machine NESN is. It's a big stretch to say the O's are capable of vastly higher payrolls right now because of MASN.

[SilentJames]

When are people going to realize that its not how much you spend but how you spend it?

I would much rather see this team working with a 80-90 million dollar payroll and put in 15-20 million a year in amateur signings.

I think that is a fair and realistic area to be in.

Now, can they go beyond that? Perhaps they can but not quite yet and probably not for another 2-4 years.

THANK YOU!

That is the point. When I used the Giants comp I was talking about the overall economies of the area and the reasonable salary range that they could support.

Would you agree that the Orioles over a 8-10 year period could easily sustain a payroll between 80-100 million dollars and be competitive year in year out?

[Moose Milligan]

When are people going to realize that its not how much you spend but how you spend it?

I would much rather see this team working with a 80-90 million dollar payroll and put in 15-20 million a year in amateur signings.

I think that is a fair and realistic area to be in.

Now, can they go beyond that? Perhaps they can but not quite yet and probably not for another 2-4 years.

Agreed on all fronts. Especially the bolded part.

[SilentJames]

What are the mandatory carrier fees charged by MASN and NESN? And how many households are covered by each? I've never seen anyone suggest that MASN brings in anywhere close to NESN's revenues, and I think it's a little implausible that people in Charlotte are going to pay several dollars per household per month to watch teams that are hundreds of miles further away than the Braves.

And you also have to consider that the Nats and O's divide up the MASN revenues.

I'll agree that there's big potential for MASN. But it's a long, long way from being the revenue generating machine NESN is. It's a big stretch to say the O's are capable of vastly higher payrolls right now because of MASN.

NESN is also bringing in revenue from The Bruins, BC, other various NE college programs that are a lot more popular than some of the filler they have on MASN.

MASN is still finding its footing and the other shows have come around a bit, but I don't think MASN will ever bring in the type of money that NESN does right now.