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Orioles need Alonso, Cinci needs Guthrie - let's make a deal

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

Posted
Posted
I know you were not responding to me, but Alonso can be the centerpiece in a deal for Guthrie, but by no means the main piece.

That said, Adrian Gonzalez was younger than Alonso and have more pop. He had a down year in 2003 in the minors, but aside from that:

2004 - 22 years old, 304/364/457 - 821 OPS

2005 - 23 years old, 338/339/561 - 960 OPS

He hit 12 home runs and 28 doubles in 2004 in 508 plate appearances, and then hit 18 home runs and 17 doubles in 368 plate appearances in 2005 at the age of 23.

They're both 1st round talent, but AGon was drafted 1st overall and as a better fielder on top of his bat. I don't know who here said he'd never develop power, as that was 11 years ago (and you've only been on this forum since 2004)

that he was drafted. And if you go by when you started on this forum, it would have been 2004. Since 2004 it's been all money for AGon (in the minors in 2k4 and 2k5, and then put it on when with San Diego in 2k6..)

I think what Sports Guy is getting at (and just not fleshing it all out) is that Alonso can continue to develop, as Adrian Gonzalez did. I don't think he believes Alonso will be one of the best hitters in the game.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I think what Sports Guy is getting at (and just not fleshing it all out) is that Alonso can continue to develop, as Adrian Gonzalez did. I don't think he believes Alonso will be one of the best hitters in the game.

Just ignore the troll..It makes things easier on you.

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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Just ignore the troll..It makes things easier on you.

How am I trolling, though?

You said people on this forum said AGon wouldn't be a power hitter. You've only been here since 2004. He had his first pro game 11 years ago. It doesn't add up. In 2004 he was money. In 2005 he was money. Are you telling me people were judging AGon when he was at the tender age of 21 in the minors? Or when he had jockstrap sniffs in the majors at 22 and 23 in the majors while tearing it up in AAA in the minors? Surely not.

No. I'm not trolling. Just pointing out some ridiculous quips that you make. Aside from that, we agree on Yonder, save for you overvaluing him a bit as you'd trade Guts straight up for him. I wouldn't, but would if another prospect was added.

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JERSEYORIOLE Major Leaguer

JERSEYORIOLE

Posted
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I wanted Alonso LAST YEAR.

Since 9/11, the age stuff has mainly gone away and Alonso went to Miami, so he was out of college...Do you just make stuff up or do you just not jnow what you are talking about?

Bell isn't the same as Alonso, no matter how much you keep saying it.

Alonso is a better OBP guy..He is a better average hitter. He isn't K'ing nearly as much. He is walking more. You can gloss over the importance of those things and that's fine...but it doesn't make your argument better..it makes it much worse.

Im not saying they are the same. I provided you the good and the bad. Im saying they are close. More walks obviously tend to increase OBP, so Alonso is has been the more patient hitter, however, that is accounting for a really bad walk rate to start Bell's 2011. Bell has more power. Personally, id rather have my 1b hit 30 jacks with a lower OBP.

Im not saying Bell is a better player. Im saying there isnt a wide gap. Im also saying that there isn't a high likelyhood that Alonso is am impact player at the ML level. If im trading Guthrie, that is what I want in return.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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Just ignore the troll..It makes things easier on you.

I like Puck -- he has a little animal wearing a hat next to his name. That cracks me up every time.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mNB_VG_shc?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mNB_VG_shc?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Im not saying they are the same. I provided you the good and the bad. Im saying they are close. More walks obviously tend to increase OBP, so Alonso is has been the more patient hitter, however, that is accounting for a really bad walk rate to start Bell's 2011. Bell has more power. Personally, id rather have my 1b hit 30 jacks with a lower OBP.

Im not saying Bell is a better player. Im saying there isnt a wide gap. Im also saying that there isn't a high likelyhood that Alonso is am impact player at the ML level. If im trading Guthrie, that is what I want in return.

Alonso is clearly the better player and has clearly progressed better at a higher level...That can not be argued against in an intelligent way.

And btw, who cares anyway? What is your point? So, if we have one CI power hitting prospect, we can't trade Guthrie and obtain another one?

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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I like Puck -- he has a little animal wearing a hat next to his name. That cracks me up every time.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mNB_VG_shc?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mNB_VG_shc?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Haha, thanks. It's a kinkajou in case anyone is wondering.

Do you remember the MASN commercial with the guy telling Nick Markakis that he was a honey bear? That's what my avy is about.

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LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

Posted
Posted
Alonso is clearly the better player and has clearly progressed better at a higher level...That can not be argued against in an intelligent way.

And btw, who cares anyway? What is your point? So, if we have one CI power hitting prospect, we can't trade Guthrie and obtain another one?

Alonso would be a really nice get for Guthrie, if we trade him. He could play 1B or move to OF if we get another 1B.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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Haha, thanks. It's a kinkajou in case anyone is wondering.

Do you remember the MASN commercial with the guy telling Nick Markakis that he was a honey bear? That's what my avy is about.

I don't remember the honey bear commercial, but it would be better if he were the "honeybadger"

(some naughty language, sorry)

<object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

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JERSEYORIOLE Major Leaguer

JERSEYORIOLE

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Posted
Alonso is clearly the better player and has clearly progressed better at a higher level...That can not be argued against in an intelligent way.

And btw, who cares anyway? What is your point? So, if we have one CI power hitting prospect, we can't trade Guthrie and obtain another one?[/QUOTE]

Of course we can. Just not for Alfonso alone for Guthrie. :)

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ChaosLex Hangout Grand Counsel

ChaosLex

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Posted
Haha, thanks. It's a kinkajou in case anyone is wondering.

Do you remember the MASN commercial with the guy telling Nick Markakis that he was a honey bear? That's what my avy is about.

LOL. I alwasy throught you avatar was a dog. Shows what I know. :rofl:

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Posted

In terms of BA prospect rankings, Bell was pretty similar at the time the O's got him to Alonso now, perhaps even higher. I think he was in the 50's in the middle of that year and made it into the top 40 going into 2010 while Alonso was rated 73rd going into this year. That's obviously not to say they're very similar players though.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Posted
In terms of BA prospect rankings, Bell was pretty similar at the time the O's got him to Alonso now, perhaps even higher. I think he was in the 50's in the middle of that year and made it into the top 40 going into 2010 while Alonso was rated 73rd going into this year. That's obviously not to say they're very similar players though.

This is actually the point I thought JerseyOriole was getting at.

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