Orioles need Alonso, Cinci needs Guthrie - let's make a deal

[The Rick]

If the rest of team improves, maybe? You are never going to have a perfect window in this division. There is no law stating he can't be traded next year. We need a TOR starter and a big bat I don't see how Guthrie, never mind anybody get's that in a trade.

We won't have the leverage to land nearly as much for Guts next year as this year. By the way, Guthrie is one of my favorite Orioles. He's a great guy and has done a lot for this team, but trading him is what's best for all parties concerned, IMO.

[eddie83]

Pitching that was, for the most part, home grown. That's what we're trying to do.

Great why weaken it if you don't have to, the rest of our rotation is making peanuts the next 3-4 years relatively speaking. I don't care where the pitching comes from if they can pitch.

[DrungoHazewood]

Why can't he help that, why can't he be a part of that? You have nobody to replace him in the rotation, nobody. You act like he is going to fall apart because he reaches a certain age. By next year he will be a complementary pitcher?

The Orioles have Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, plus Bergesen, Tillman. They can find 3rd, 4th, 5th starters in free agency. They have options in the rotation.

Where they have no options are at first and second base. They literally have nothing but Brandon Snyder as a plausible first baseman for 2012, and he's OPSing .750 his 3rd time through AAA. If Roberts is never back to 100% the pickings are almost as slim.

And while there's no guarantee Guthrie will decline at any particular age, the odds go up with each succeeding season. Even Jim Palmer would have fallen well short of living up to a four-year deal starting at age 34.

[Roll Tide]

Why can't he help that, why can't he be a part of that? You have nobody to replace him in the rotation, nobody. You act like he is going to fall apart because he reaches a certain age. By next year he will be a complementary pitcher?

Eddie I applaud your conviction. But Guthrie staying is not what's the best for the Orioles. They need to continue adding talent the only way they can. Let me ask are the Orioles closer to the Rays n Jays after the draft. Consider that the Rays got 8 players In the time the O's got two that why we need to do it this way.

[eddie83]

We won't have the leverage to land nearly as much for Guts next year as this year. By the way, Guthrie is one of my favorite Orioles. He's a great guy and has done a lot for this team, but trading him is what's best for all parties concerned, IMO.

You are right we won't have the same leverage but at some time you have to go for it. Your plan of banking on prospects in our system helping out down the road is a shot in the dark.

[The Rick]

You are right we won't have the same leverage but at some time you have to go for it. Your plan of banking on prospects in our system helping out down the road is a shot in the dark.

Well I suppose we can agree to disagree, but I don't see nearly enough signs that this is the right time to go for broke.

My concern around trading a Guthrie/Scott is that I'm not sure I trust Lee IV, but AM did fine with the Tejada/Bedard trades, IMO.

[Roll Tide]

You are right we won't have the same leverage but at some time you have to go for it. Your plan of banking on prospects in our system helping out down the road is a shot in the dark.

if you don't trade Guthrie and the other vets you can get something for then how do you propose we fix the offense to compete? the current offense isn't winning the al east. The retread vets the O's appear willing to sign isn't working.

[eddie83]

The Orioles have Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, plus Bergesen, Tillman. They can find 3rd, 4th, 5th starters in free agency. They have options in the rotation.

Where they have no options are at first and second base. They literally have nothing but Brandon Snyder as a plausible first baseman for 2012, and he's OPSing .750 his 3rd time through AAA. If Roberts is never back to 100% the pickings are almost as slim.

And while there's no guarantee Guthrie will decline at any particular age, the odds go up with each succeeding season. Even Jim Palmer would have fallen well short of living up to a four-year deal starting at age 34.

Free agent options for the rotation in this division? You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You think they can go out in FA and get pitchers but you don't want to keep a guy who has already done it. Pitchers don't like pitching in this park and this division and you will really overpay then. Bergy and Tillman have showed no consistency to get outs at this level. Everyone acts like it is so easy to find good pitching.

We do have other holes, but I don't see how opening up another one helps anything.

[eddie83]

Well I suppose we can agree to disagree, but I don't see nearly enough signs that this is the right time to go for broke.

My concern around trading a Guthrie/Scott is that I'm not sure I trust Lee IV, but AM did fine with the Tejada/Bedard trades, IMO.

I have nothing against trading the other guys, nothing.

I don't see it as going for broke. I see it as tying up a consistent, well conditioned starter, and putting him around a group of talented but young and cheap pitchers. As i have said before this rotation will not be making much money the next couple of seasons.

[eddie83]

if you don't trade Guthrie and the other vets you can get something for then how do you propose we fix the offense to compete? the current offense isn't winning the al east. The retread vets the O's appear willing to sign isn't working.

If you getting the next AGone then do it, I don't like the odds myself. Getting a Laroche type isn't what we need. Maybe they will bring that big bat home this winter.

[ADAMWD_OsRavens]

How about James Darnell plus a couple other prospects.

Or are the Padres an unlikely trade partner because they aren't in any position to compete?

[eddie83]

Eddie I applaud your conviction. But Guthrie staying is not what's the best for the Orioles. They need to continue adding talent the only way they can. Let me ask are the Orioles closer to the Rays n Jays after the draft. Consider that the Rays got 8 players In the time the O's got two that why we need to do it this way.

Then let's fold the franchise then.

[Sports Guy]

You are right we won't have the same leverage but at some time you have to go for it. Your plan of banking on prospects in our system helping out down the road is a shot in the dark.

You do realize that if those young players don't pan out that whatever Guthrie does is meaningless,right?

[Singleton]

You are right we won't have the same leverage but at some time you have to go for it. Your plan of banking on prospects in our system helping out down the road is a shot in the dark.

Actually, I could make a good argument that we'd get more for Guts in the offseason -- when more teams are looking for pitching (not just those in the race) and you can consider young starters as well as minor leaguers.

I agree that I would not give Guthrie a 4 year deal and I'm open to trading him but i think the idea that we must trade him in the middle of the season or lose him for nothing is a false statement.

[SrMeowMeow]

Look at it this way - would any of you, any of you, trade Yonder Alonso if we had him for Jeremy Guthrie? No way. Not in a million years. Why would we want to add a solid but unspectacular veteran finally becoming expensive and already 32? We'd say, "why not just sign a comparable pitcher in FA and not give up the 24-year-old prospect at a position of need OPSing 890 in AAA".

Do you guys want to trade Reimold for Joe Saunders? Good, me neither.