It's time for Andy to get "MacPhailed"

[Sports Guy]

Look at the 2007 team. Most of the core players were old and on long-term deals. The ones on shorter contracts were bad players. Ramon Hernandez was 31, and an old catcher 31. Millar was the Derrek Lee of his day, but Lee was coming off a better year. Tejada was 33, in the midst of a multi-year decline. Mora, 35, in the middle of an ill-conceived extension through his late 30s. Jay Payton was a 34-year-old version of Felix Pie. Corey Patterson was another Pie clone. Aubrey Huff was 30 and hadn't been a positive asset since 2004. Bedard was a year from free agency, Cabrera was imploding, Trachsel was 36 and had some of the uglier peripherals in recent history, and the 5th starter was junkballer/swingman Brian Burress.

Now they have younger guys with production and plausible growth at catcher, short (if they can resign Hardy), third, maybe left if Reimold or Pie work out, center, right, and throughout the rotation.

I'll concede it's incremental growth. And it's not enough. And the pipeline hasn't even come close to self-sustainment. But they are better off.

As I said, a polished turd is still a turd.

This is why we are better off under AM but even though we are better, we are as far or further away from contention than when AM came aboard....and that's sad.

After the Bedard deal, AM went almost a year without doing anything...I hammered him for that and many on here hammered me for that point. The problem was always that when you are as bad off as the Orioles are, you should never have that much time without doing anything worthwhile.

The Orioles are too slow, not creative and make too many dumb moves.

[Dipper9]

Look at the 2007 team. Most of the core players were old and on long-term deals. The ones on shorter contracts were bad players. Ramon Hernandez was 31, and an old catcher 31. Millar was the Derrek Lee of his day, but Lee was coming off a better year. Tejada was 33, in the midst of a multi-year decline. Mora, 35, in the middle of an ill-conceived extension through his late 30s. Jay Payton was a 34-year-old version of Felix Pie. Corey Patterson was another Pie clone. Aubrey Huff was 30 and hadn't been a positive asset since 2004. Bedard was a year from free agency, Cabrera was imploding, Trachsel was 36 and had some of the uglier peripherals in recent history, and the 5th starter was junkballer/swingman Brian Burress.

Now they have younger guys with production and plausible growth at catcher, short (if they can resign Hardy), third, maybe left if Reimold or Pie work out, center, right, and throughout the rotation.

I'll concede it's incremental growth. And it's not enough. And the pipeline hasn't even come close to self-sustainment. But they are better off.

Great post, and I'll give you the fact that position by position we are better than we were in 2007. But...and here is the key... (SG mentions this all the time as well) the other 4 teams in our division have also gotten better! And they have gotten more better (lol) than us! So while the 2011 Orioles would easily beat the 2007 Orioles, neither of them are capable of climbing out of the AL East cellar.

To your later post, yeah the division alignment sucks and MLB needs to do something about it, but that's no excuse for us to continue to suck.

[Sports Guy]

Great post, and I'll give you the fact that position by position we are better than we were in 2007. But...and here is the key... (SG mentions this all the time as well) the other 4 teams in our division have also gotten better! And they have gotten more better (lol) than us! So while the 2011 Orioles would easily beat the 2007 Orioles, neither of them are capable of climbing out of the AL East cellar.

To your later post, yeah the division alignment sucks and MLB needs to do something about it, but that's no excuse for us to continue to suck.

Yea...I am so f'ing tired of hearing the whining about our division and unbalanced schedule.

The bottom line is this...We have as big of a disadvantage as any team in MLB but what do the Orioles do about it? Are they trying to invent new ways of doing things? Are they throwing major dollars on amateur talent? Are they going out and being aggressive and creative? NO...They do the same bs they did before. Poor middling FA contracts, ignore international stuff, invest too little in scouting, etc...

When you are in this division, you figure that they would be doing everything they can to be contenders...when the reality is that they are doing very little.

[ShaneDawg85]

Clearly the Orioles are on a losing streak.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yea...I am so f'ing tired of hearing the whining about our division and unbalanced schedule.

It's an injustice. It's ridiculous. Something could and should be done about it. So I'm going to keep complaining.

The bottom line is this...We have as big of a disadvantage as any team in MLB but what do the Orioles do about it? Are they trying to invent new ways of doing things? Are they throwing major dollars on amateur talent? Are they going out and being aggressive and creative? NO...They do the same bs they did before. Poor middling FA contracts, ignore international stuff, invest too little in scouting, etc...

When you are in this division, you figure that they would be doing everything they can to be contenders...when the reality is that they are doing very little.

I don't think you'll get much disagreement here, not from me. But it's just in how you look at things. I see MacPhail bringing the team from 0 to 50% as doing some things well, but not doing enough. While you see going from 0 to 50% as total failure, complete incompetence, since he didn't get us 90% or 100%.

[Sports Guy]

It's an injustice. It's ridiculous. Something could and should be done about it. So I'm going to keep complaining.

I don't think you'll get much disagreement here, not from me. But it's just in how you look at things. I see MacPhail bringing the team from 0 to 50% as doing some things well, but not doing enough. While you see going from 0 to 50% as total failure, complete incompetence, since he didn't get us 90% or 100%.

Yep..because I want this team to you know, WIN!

So yes, doing half the job is still a complete failure because we aren't anywhere close to contention and we should be by now.

If we go back to 2008 and 2009, I am sure you said that you expected us to be doing enough to be in contention by now...So now, we aren't any closer to that than we were then. Isn't that a failure?

[DrungoHazewood]

Yep..because I want this team to you know, WIN!

So yes, doing half the job is still a complete failure because we aren't anywhere close to contention and we should be by now.

If we go back to 2008 and 2009, I am sure you said that you expected us to be doing enough to be in contention by now...So now, we aren't any closer to that than we were then. Isn't that a failure?

Sure, if you want to look at it that way. I'm not always in a mood to lump together "much better" and "abject failure". It's depressing, and I don't feel like being bitter all the time.

[Stotle]

I think the unbalanced schedules are a joke. The AL East is certainly a difficult proposition with Boston and New York able to spend so much.

But until the Orioles show they can build a team that SHOULD be competitive, but for these unfair challenges, I have a hard time complaining. Toronto and Tampa are each dealing with the same issue and are attacking the situation by trying to find areas of the game they can exploit. My issue with Baltimore is that I see absolutely NOTHING creative. It's like they want to act like a "traditional" baseball organization (whatever that means) and expect that to somehow lead to an AL East title. They need to figure out inventive approaches that will give them some sort of edge in some aspect of the game.

I guess you can say "they shouldn't have to come up with some creative way to do things -- that's not fair. Maybe. But that's reality. So they can sit here and complain or they can do what their competitors are doing -- try to become one of the best five organizations in baseball.

[Sports Guy]

I think the unbalanced schedules are a joke. The AL East is certainly a difficult proposition with Boston and New York able to spend so much.

But until the Orioles show they can build a team that SHOULD be competitive, but for these unfair challenges, I have a hard time complaining. Toronto and Tampa are each dealing with the same issue and are attacking the situation by trying to find areas of the game they can exploit. My issue with Baltimore is that I see absolutely NOTHING creative. It's like they want to act like a "traditional" baseball organization (whatever that means) and expect that to somehow lead to an AL East title. They need to figure out inventive approaches that will give them some sort of edge in some aspect of the game.

I guess you can say "they shouldn't have to come up with some creative way to do things -- that's not fair. Maybe. But that's reality. So they can sit here and complain or they can do what their competitors are doing -- try to become one of the best five organizations in baseball.

Which is why all the whining about the unbalanced schedule is bs. We sit there and cry and those 2 teams go out and do something about it...But hey, its ok, AM is 50% better than garbage we had before...WOOHOOO!!! What an accomplishment!

I am not saying the schedule is right but what difference does it make right now? We aren't a true contender in any of the divisions right now IMO. We would obviously be better off and closer to contention but that's about it. We would still have the same issues we have now and they are huge, stop you from contention long term issues.

[Stotle]

Which is why all the whining about the unbalanced schedule is bs. We sit there and cry and those 2 teams go out and do something about it...But hey, its ok, AM is 50% better than garbage we had before...WOOHOOO!!! What an accomplishment!

I am not saying the schedule is right but what difference does it make right now? We aren't a true contender in any of the divisions right now IMO. We would obviously be better off and closer to contention but that's about it. We would still have the same issues we have now and they are huge, stop you from contention long term issues.

I agree to a certain extent. I don't think Andy MacPhail has done enough, but I also don't think the results are such that he needs to be shown the door. Do I personally think Baltimore can be a winner with this front office? Not if changes in process are not made. But he has been a "solid" PoBO. I wouldn't disagree with the organization going in a different direction. I wouldn't disagree with extending him. Part of me would like to see what they do with this young core, and if they can figure out a way to build around it.

[CrimsonTribe]

I'm coming around to the MacPhail needs to go camp, but its for reasons unrelated to most of JTrea's rantings and ravings. When MacPhail came in, it was a breath of fresh air. Here was a guy who wanted to build the "right way" by creating a self-sustaining farm system that could produce major league talent and would only need to be supplemented by free agency. The Bedard and Tejada trades were a great start, but since then Andy has stagnated, continuing to commit resources to putting a mediocre, rather than awful, product on the field. For a short while, we had an above average farm system, but once we graduated our top prospects it fell off again. As of now, it seems to be anything but self-sustaining. Andy has not developed a presence internationally, he has not exploited the system well to gain extra picks in the draft (or even kept us from losing the ones we had), and from what I can tell sitting here at my computer in Birmingham, AL, he has not instituted a system-wide development plan for prospects in the vein of the Oriole Way. What he has done is made this organization almost mediocre, which is a step up from where we were before, but unfortunately is not going to cut it, especially in our hellacious division. I think it's about time for Andy to go at the end of the season. Bring in new blood, innovative thinkers, and guys who aren't going to run a traditional organizational structure in a mediocre way.

[clapdiddy]

I agree to a certain extent. I don't think Andy MacPhail has done enough, but I also don't think the results are such that he needs to be shown the door. Do I personally think Baltimore can be a winner with this front office? Not if changes in process are not made. But he has been a "solid" PoBO. I wouldn't disagree with the organization going in a different direction. I wouldn't disagree with extending him. Part of me would like to see what they do with this young core, and if they can figure out a way to build around it.

Not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't that what Mr. MacPhail is paid to do? He's been here quite a while. I think he and his other front office types have done a pretty mediocre job of supplementing our farm system with new talent via trades, the draft, AND international signings.

Unfortunately, we are still sitting in the "let's try to get to .500" mindset instead of taking the lumps for a few years and building a rock-solid organization from the ground up.

[UMDTerrapins]

I think AM has been exactly what we expected. He's been a massive upgrade over everything that came after Gillick. He's slow and methodical. He did improve the talent level on the 40 man with more youth and fewer awful contracts (though he's clearly made some significant mistakes). He brought us legitimacy in some baseball circles where there was absolutely none. He's signed some serious duds while letting some good young players walk for free. He has shown no ability to land impact players. He did ultimately land us a respected manager. And despite acquiring/drafting some good young talent, our overall MiL strength is disappointing.

He is the ultimate mixed bag. I think his time has served us well as long as he is a stepping stone to someone who can make the all important remaining steps to being a winner. I'm not an apologist for AM. But I will defend his accomplishments, because in 2007 we were an absolute joke of a franchise. At least now we have some good young core players to build around. But compare where we are today vs. Kansas City and how far they've come under somewhat similar origins in 2006-2007.....and I find myself asking what Dayton Moore's buyout is!

I'm not ready to run him out of town with a pitchfork, but to extend him would be a real dagger for my optimism. Just like his reputation that came with him, he can't get us to the next level.

[TiredofLosing20]

The problem with all of this which has been discussed over and over again is that who are we going to bring in to replace him. Based on Tony's article it appears that even AM doesn't have full say on things like the Stockstills. Angelos is, has, and will continue to be the real problem. People want creativity, Angelos isn't about creativity and thus I seriously doubt he is willing to hire the type of GM needed to do some of the things people here want done.

Face it, AM is the best case scenario for this franchise given the ownership.

[UMDTerrapins]

The problem with all of this which has been discussed over and over again is that who are we going to bring in to replace him. Based on Tony's article it appears that even AM doesn't have full say on things like the Stockstills. Angelos is, has, and will continue to be the real problem. People want creativity, Angelos isn't about creativity and thus I seriously doubt he is willing to hire the type of GM needed to do some of the things people here want done.

Face it, AM is the best case scenario for this franchise given the ownership.

I don't know if "creativity" is PA's weakness. He did try to abolish the traditional GM role and create a two headed monster. That was creative.....and dumb. His greatest weakness IMO is the inability to hire well. Make no mistake, I'm with you in the feeling that PA is the undebatable, overwhelming #1 problem with this organization....and he's actually improved in the past few years. But AM just can't take us any further.....or if he can it's still completely insufficient. We have too much ground yet to make up. It's time for another change. Problem is that anyone with the ability that we need either wouldn't consider the job, or would run away or be run off because PA can't work with Alpha types. But we gotta do something.....