Rosenthal talks about O's next GM: Nothing we don't already know...

[eb45]

If you can, without making ill thought-out smart-ass responses, what was wrong with having Pat Gillick in Baltimore?

I don't think he's saying Gillick was bad so much as that the idea that Johnson "picked" him is inaccurate.

Regarding the actual thread, oh man it is hard to be a fan of this team.

[Remember The Alomar]

This just confirms that we should have incredibly low expectations for the next hire.

I'm just spitballing, but if this report is true, I would expect MacPhail to recommend some one who's worked under him and for Buck to suggest someone he's worked with in the past.

To me that means the early favorites for the job are Klentak and Hart.

[El Gordo]

This just confirms that we should have incredibly low expectations for the next hire.

I'm just spitballing, but if this report is true, I would expect MacPhail to recommend some one who's worked under him and for Buck to suggest someone he's worked with in the past.

To me that means the early favorites for the job are Klentak and Hart.

Maybe we can have bicameral GM's again. :laughlol:

[TonySoprano]

I don't think he's saying Gillick was bad so much as that the idea that Johnson "picked" him is inaccurate.

Regarding the actual thread, oh man it is hard to be a fan of this team.

And he would be wrong, if that were the case. Angelos hired him, but it was Gillick's former minor league teammate, Davey Johnson, that recruited him.

Davey Johnson hasn't managed a single game for the Orioles, and already he's made a big move -- luring perhaps the most respected executive in baseball to oversee the team.

Pat Gillick, the general manager who built the Toronto Blue Jays into two-time world champions, signed a three-year contract to be general manager of the Orioles yesterday. "He's at the very peak of his profession," said Atlanta Braves GM John Schuerholz.

And Johnson, named Orioles manager less than a month ago, is largely responsible.

"Davey was important to this whole thing happening," Gillick said yesterday.

Gillick, 58, repeatedly told Orioles officials he was not interested in replacing Roland Hemond, who resigned Oct. 20 as general manager. Several times, owner Peter Angelos appeared close to choosing between former Montreal Expos general manager Kevin Malone and former Detroit Tigers GM Joe Klein.

But on Nov. 15, Johnson ran into Gillick at the major-league general managers' meetings in Scottsdale, Ariz. He and Gillick broke into professional baseball in the Orioles organization, Gillick as a left-handed pitcher. They played together in 1963, at Single-A Elmira (N.Y.).

Johnson encouraged his old friend to think again about joining the Orioles. "Davey said to me, 'Hey, why don't you reconsider your position and come along and work with us?' " Gillick said. "It was Davey's energy that got me [interested]."

Two weeks later, Gillick became Johnson's boss. After meeting with Angelos Nov. 20, he called the Orioles owner on Friday and said he wanted the job. Gillick held his first organizational meeting yesterday, only minutes before signing his contract. Gillick will be paid about $750,000 per year, with incentives based on the performance of the club, according to a league source.

source - Buster Olney, Baltimore Sun, Nov. 28, 1995

[Remember The Alomar]

Maybe we can have bicameral GM's again. :laughlol:

Can we call them Klart if that's the case? In all seriousness I did mean Klentak or Hart though.

As an aside I found something interesting. We all know that PA is a big labor guy. The Rosenthal article even mentions that PA first met AM during the '02 and '06 labor negotiations. Well, I just came across this article from MLB.com when Klentak was first hired in 2008.

Klentak joins the Orioles after spending the last four years working in Major League Baseball's Labor Relations Department, where he provided advice and interpretations on the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Major League Rules to all 30 Major League teams.

Klentak was also a key member of the MLB Collective Bargaining team that successfully negotiated a second consecutive CBA without a work stoppage in 2006. It was on this team that Klentak and MacPhail first worked together.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080226&content_id=2389999&vkey=pr_bal&fext=.jsp

So we know Klentak has a deep familiarity with labor negotiations and has connections with MacPhail stemming five years back. He's been in Baltimore for three years. Taken together these facts really seem to reinforce the idea that Klentak is a guy that PA would be comfortable with. The more I think about it, the more I believe it's going to be Klentak.

He's young and obviously bright--he graduated from Dartmouth in 2002 with a degree in Economics-- and I don't want to judge someone prematurely but I don't think we'd see anything different in terms of how this team is run if he does in fact get the job.

This is take from a interview Klentak did with Camden Chat in May of this year:

Klentak also spoke about international scouting and specifically the Orioles' decision to not be one of the major players internationally. Klentak echoed the sentiments previously voiced by President of Baseball Operations Andy MacPhail when he said that historically speaking, investments in the international market aren't as sound as domestic investments, and while the team has increased its resources for the international market the past couple years, they are not and probably will not be one of the biggest spenders internationally.

Klentak then went a step further, telling us that last year the Orioles brought someone in for the specific task of analyzing the return on investment for international signings and based on the results, it was determined that it wasn't high enough to to warrant a bigger investment than they are giving it (he understandably declined to give details on the study). The Orioles have to be mindful of their resource allocation and while the domestic front is also risky, it's easier to know their true talent level. Players in international markets have agents that protect them so fiercely that it can be difficult to see them play in enough game situations to accurately assess their talent.

http://www.camdenchat.com/2011/5/11/2165462/q-a-with-matt-klentak-orioles-director-baseball-operations

For all we know he was toeing the company line. Perhaps Klentak would actually end up being "our" young GM with new, modern ideas that we all want so badly. It's impossible to say at this point. That being said I'd still be underwhelmed initially.

[eb45]

And he would be wrong, if that were the case. Angelos hired him, but it was Gillick's former minor league teammate, Davey Johnson, that recruited him.

source - Buster Olney, Baltimore Sun, Nov. 28, 1995

Recruiting and selecting are very, very different. To say that Johnson "picked" Gillick is to overstate his role in the proceedings. He was certainly part of it, but it's not like the effective final choice was ever his to make, like some are suggesting it would be Showalter's.

In fact, the article indicates that Johnson's recruitment of Gillick only happened because of a pre-existing relationship between the two. Obviously it was okay because Gillick was excellent, but if Gillick didn't already have a reputation as a top executive, I'm not sure Angelos would have picked him solely based on Johnson's recommendation.

If Showalter was friends with an Epstein/Friedman/Beane level exec and was able to lure them to Baltimore, then that would be one thing. But to use Johnson helping to recruit a top exec as justification for allowing the field manager to pick the GM is flawed reasoning.

[The Maestro]

If Klentak is McPhail Jr in regards to building and developing an organization, I think I'll pass.

[allstar1579]

It didn't work too badly when DJ picked Gillick...

Yes, Angelos gave direct hiring input to a guy that he fired unceremoniously shortly thereafter. #Ripleysbelieveitornot

Clarifying:

DJ got him interested in the position. Angelos absolutely made the decision on his own.

[allstar1579]

This just confirms that we should have incredibly low expectations for the next hire.

I'm just spitballing, but if this report is true, I would expect MacPhail to recommend some one who's worked under him and for Buck to suggest someone he's worked with in the past.

To me that means the early favorites for the job are Klentak and Hart.

Good news is Hart works for TEX, and maybe he would come in as President of Baseball Operations and bring in Thad to be GM and ***g to be SD from TEX with him. Glass half full...

[NewMarketSean]

I don't want Showalter to get any input on the next general manager. In fact, I want the next general manager to have COMPLETE input on whether Showalter is the next manager of the Orioles. That's the way it works, and should work.

First off, it doesn't matter. Angelos is still the owner.

Second, Buck Showalter is probably the last person in this organization with a shred of credibility to their name so we might as well have Buck's opinion taken heavily into consideration instead of Angelos going out and hiring some good ol boy GM or someone that one of his cronies recommends.

[eb45]

I'm not sure Showalter is a whole lot better than an Angelos crony at this point. In fact I might be happier if he was replaced as well.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm not sure Showalter is a whole lot better than an Angelos crony at this point. In fact I might be happier if he was replaced as well.

But it wouldn't matter. Buck having a say doesn't matter. Angelos is still the owner. But I'd still rather have Buck's candidate be our GM as the lesser of two evils.

[weams]

If you can, without making ill thought-out smart-ass responses, what was wrong with having Pat Gillick in Baltimore?

Pat was a good GM and is a Hall of Famer.

[SammyBirdland]

I would expect MacPhail to recommend some one who's worked under him and for Buck to suggest someone he's worked with in the past.

Here's hoping they're smart enough to pick Buck's guy since, you know, Buck will still be here (I think).

[eb45]

But it wouldn't matter. Buck having a say doesn't matter. Angelos is still the owner. But I'd still rather have Buck's candidate be our GM as the lesser of two evils.

I think that, in theory, Angelos could be convinced to come around to a different way of doing things. Call me an optimist. I also think it's unlikely that anyone who gets the job through pure cronyism (this is not how Gillick got the job) would be interested in convincing Angelos of anything.

I highly doubt it will actually happen, but for the team to be fixed at all, the next GM has to be selected as the best from a wide range of candidates. If you're only talking guys Angelos and Buck are familiar with then you're hugely limiting the pool.

I get that you're resigning yourself to the lesser of two evils, so this isn't so much directed at you as at the community in general, particularly people who think Buck should pick the next GM.