Anyone else a little worried about Jim Johnson?

[Mondo Trasho]

Whenever he comes in now I kind of feel the same way I feel when Gregg comes in: I hold my breath. It used to be that I just knew the game was over because JJ's stuff was just too good. He's just not a sure thing anymore. He's a mere mortal.

[Flash- bd]

It's happen what, 3 times this year, one cause of an error? The ball Norris hit should have been a DP, if Reynolds is able to reach it game over!

Blaming Reynolds for that? Please. Not even the huge JJ apologists--and across-the-board delusional fellows--on MASN did that. That ball was never a DP.

Besides, it's besides the point. Like I said, if you allow that much contact and don't change speeds at all that "bad luck" will happen more than it should for a closer. A closer nailing down a save can't be a largely luck-based proposition, it needs to be nearly certain, or else he's by definition, not a good closer, or at the very best quite expendable.

I for one would be okay with moving JJ to the rotation and Strop to closer. I think JJ's stuff translates better to the rotation than to the closer role, though it would be quite a project. The most sensible move is probably to move (trade) him or hope he refines his game as a closer.

[mark_beckens]

Blaming Reynolds for that? Please. Not even the huge JJ apologists--and across-the-board delusional fellows--on MASN did that. That ball was never a DP.

Besides, it's besides the point. Like I said, if you allow that much contact and don't change speeds at all that "bad luck" will happen more than it should for a closer. A closer nailing down a save can't be a largely luck-based proposition, it needs to be nearly certain, or else he's by definition, not a good closer, or at the very best quite expendable.

I for one would be okay with moving JJ to the rotation and Strop to closer. I think JJ's stuff translates better to the rotation than to the closer role, though it would be quite a project. The most sensible move is probably to move (trade) him or hope he refines his game as a closer.

OMFG, yeah, I'm blaming Reynolds for not catching a ball that bounced over his head. IF, IF, IF the ball doesn't bounce off the plate, and OVER Reynolds head, it's a DP!

[Flash- bd]

OMFG, yeah, I'm blaming Reynolds for not catching a ball that bounced over his head. IF, IF, IF the ball doesn't bounce off the plate, and OVER Reynolds head, it's a DP!

Ah, I apologize. I read "error" and then "the ball that Norris hit" and then "if Reynolds is able to reach it game over". Not the most clearly worded post in the world but neither are any of mine. Again, apologies, I misread.

[mark_beckens]

Blaming Reynolds for that? Please. Not even the huge JJ apologists--and across-the-board delusional fellows--on MASN did that. That ball was never a DP.

Besides, it's besides the point. Like I said, if you allow that much contact and don't change speeds at all that "bad luck" will happen more than it should for a closer. A closer nailing down a save can't be a largely luck-based proposition, it needs to be nearly certain, or else he's by definition, not a good closer, or at the very best quite expendable.

I for one would be okay with moving JJ to the rotation and Strop to closer. I think JJ's stuff translates better to the rotation than to the closer role, though it would be quite a project. The most sensible move is probably to move (trade) him or hope he refines his game as a closer.

Mariana Rivera, considered by many to be the greatest closer of all times

Pitching

Year Team G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA

1995 NYY 19 10 5 3 0 1 0 0 0 67.0 71 43 41 11 30 51 5.51 1.51 .266

1996 NYY 61 0 8 3 5 3 27 0 0 107.2 73 25 25 1 34 130 2.09 0.99 .189

1997 NYY 66 0 6 4 43 9 0 0 0 71.2 65 17 15 5 20 68 1.88 1.19 .237

1998 NYY 54 0 3 0 36 5 0 0 0 61.1 48 13 13 3 17 36 1.91 1.06 .215

1999 NYY 66 0 4 3 45 4 0 0 0 69.0 43 15 14 2 18 52 1.83 0.88 .176

2000 NYY 66 0 7 4 36 5 0 0 0 75.2 58 26 24 4 25 58 2.85 1.10 .208

2001 NYY 71 0 4 6 50 7 0 0 0 80.2 61 24 21 5 12 83 2.34 0.90 .209

2002 NYY 45 0 1 4 28 4 2 0 0 46.0 35 16 14 3 11 41 2.74 1.00 .203

2003 NYY 64 0 5 2 40 6 0 0 0 70.2 61 15 13 3 10 63 1.66 1.00 .235

2004 NYY 74 0 4 2 53 4 0 0 0 78.2 65 17 17 3 20 66 1.94 1.08 .225

2005 NYY 71 0 7 4 43 4 0 0 0 78.1 50 18 12 2 18 80 1.38 0.87 .177

2006 NYY 63 0 5 5 34 3 0 0 0 75.0 61 16 15 3 11 55 1.80 0.96 .223

2007 NYY 67 0 3 4 30 4 0 0 0 71.1 68 25 25 4 12 74 3.15 1.12 .248

2008 NYY 64 0 6 5 39 1 0 0 0 70.2 41 11 11 4 6 77 1.40 0.67 .165

2009 NYY 66 0 3 3 44 2 0 0 0 66.1 48 14 13 7 12 72 1.76 0.90 .197

2010 NYY 61 0 3 3 33 5 0 0 0 60.0 39 14 12 2 11 45 1.80 0.83 .183

2011 NYY 64 0 1 2 44 5 0 0 0 61.1 47 13 13 3 8 60 1.91 0.90 .215

2012 NYY 9 0 1 1 5 1 0 0 0 8.1 6 2 2 0 2 8 2.16 0.96 .200

Career 1051 10 76 58 608 73 29 0 0 1219.2 940 324 300 65 277 1119 2.21 1.00 .210

73 blown saves in 17 years, thats roughly 5 BS's per year, JJ just picked up his 3rd!

[mark_beckens]

Ah, I apologize. I read "error" and then "the ball that Norris hit" and then "if Reynolds is able to reach it game over". Not the most clearly worded post in the world but neither are any of mine. Again, apologies, I misread.

One of his blown saves was cause of an error, think it was the Boston BS, in which I believe it was Reynolds.

[SteveO]

JJ did not have it tonight obviously but that being said, its not like the ball was being crushed, they were just hitting them in the holes. That play with Reynolds was not a DP ball as some have said. Last but not least, in 33games with the lead going into the 9th inning this is the first one we have actually lost and thats not to bad all things considered. JJ has 30/33 in save situations, Strop is still not consistent enough with his control IMO to be trusted as the closer yet. I do not see a lot of upside in moving JJ to the rotation were he is an unknown quantity when he has been nothing but very very good since taking over the closer role IMO. There are enough guys who you can sign as free agents this winter who could help the rotation, why mess up something that is working?

[Flash- bd]

One of his blown saves was cause of an error, think it was the Boston BS, in which I believe it was Reynolds.

Detroit, because of Flaherty. But he also got smacked around big time in that game. As everyone loves to tell me with Tillman: sometimes those things happen, you need to overcome it (esp. with a 3 run lead). Boston was a HR to Salty.

73 blown saves in 17 years, thats roughly 5 BS's per year, JJ just picked up his 3rd!

No one said his rate this year wasn't good or even fantastic. Just that it won't hold up that well over time unless adjustments are made.

[mark_beckens]

JJ did not have it tonight obviously but that being said, its not like the ball was being crushed, they were just hitting them in the holes. That play with Reynolds was not a DP ball as some have said. Last but not least, in 33games with the lead going into the 9th inning this is the first one we have actually lost and thats not to bad all things considered. JJ has 30/33 in save situations, Strop is still not consistent enough with his control IMO to be trusted as the closer yet. I do not see a lot of upside in moving JJ to the rotation were he is an unknown quantity when he has been nothing but very very good since taking over the closer role IMO. There are enough guys who you can sign as free agents this winter who could help the rotation, why mess up something that is working?

I ball was hit right at Reynolds, but over his head, if he catches it, it's a DP.

[SteveO]

Mariana Rivera, considered by many to be the greatest closer of all times

73 blown saves in 17 years, thats roughly 5 BS's per year, JJ just picked up his 3rd!

Exactly why I die laughing everytime I hear some clown talk about how JJ is not what they like in a closer etc... The guy is getting it done and getting it done consistently for the most part. Even the best have nights were things do not go their way or they do not have the best stuff as you point out with Rivera. Why would you take a guy who made the allstar team and screw around with that? So we can all sit here next year talking about how we need to move JJ back to closer or get one once he is in the rotation?

[mark_beckens]

Detroit, because of Flaherty. Boston was a HR to Salty.

No one said his rate this year wasn't good or even fantastic. Just that it won't hold up that well over time.

Don't you think the fact that we can recall every blown save he's had this season, how, who, when, he's getting alittle bit too much criticism?

[Mondo Trasho]

JJ did not have it tonight obviously but that being said, its not like the ball was being crushed, they were just hitting them in the holes. That play with Reynolds was not a DP ball as some have said. Last but not least, in 33games with the lead going into the 9th inning this is the first one we have actually lost and thats not to bad all things considered. JJ has 30/33 in save situations, Strop is still not consistent enough with his control IMO to be trusted as the closer yet. I do not see a lot of upside in moving JJ to the rotation were he is an unknown quantity when he has been nothing but very very good since taking over the closer role IMO. There are enough guys who you can sign as free agents this winter who could help the rotation, why mess up something that is working?

Strop isn't ready to be a closer (and may never be) but I think we've learned that Johnson is not "special". He's just regular.

[SteveO]

I ball was hit right at Reynolds, but over his head, if he catches it, it's a DP.

I hear ya. I doubt its a DP but should not have been as damaging as Reynolds play on it lead it to be. Not exonerating him, just saying based on his track record there is no reason to believe he makes that play.

[mark_beckens]

Strop isn't ready to be a closer (and may never be) but I think we've learned that Johnson is not "special". He's just regular.

Regular, as in human?

[mark_beckens]

I hear ya. I doubt its a DP but should not have been as damaging as Reynolds play on it lead it to be. Not exonerating him, just saying based on his track record there is no reason to believe he makes that play.

It was Norris, the catcher, you know, piano on the back, stop