Orioles are one of the teams that the Twins have contacted in regards to Justin Morneau

[soxhotcorner14]

Morneau is good contact hitter - .280 BA and .351 OBP career line. He's still not that old. He'll bounce back eventually. For good price, i'll take chance on him.

Good contact, strikes out 100 times less than Reynolds just for starters. Like I've stated, hes' not the Plan A... but if what DD was saying that MR would get $12M in arbitration, would you bone up $2M for former MVP? I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure MR doesn't have that on his resume. So the quality of player is better from actual player standpoint. I don't know much about Morneau personally, so I can't provide if he's just as good as MR in the clubhouse.

[DrungoHazewood]

Good contact, strikes out 100 times less than Reynolds just for starters. Like I've stated, hes' not the Plan A... but if what DD was saying that MR would get $12M in arbitration, would you bone up $2M for former MVP? I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure MR doesn't have that on his resume. So the quality of player is better from actual player standpoint. I don't know much about Morneau personally, so I can't provide if he's just as good as MR in the clubhouse.

I wouldn't chip in an extra 25 cents because the BBWAA voted the 20th-best player in the league the MVP seven years ago. That was the year Morneau was almost as good as Miguel Tejada.

[soxhotcorner14]

I still don't see how getting him at a $14 mm salary would be "buying low." Yes, I do discount his 2011 season, but in 2012 he still had a big problem with LHP.

The only thing I can add to this, is that when you look at his splits he has had success vs. LHP in the past. If you look at Reynolds, his splits are dreadful for majority of his career. Not saying you are or are not advocating MR. Just that there is little to compare with these two players in the BA category.

[soxhotcorner14]

I wouldn't chip in an extra 25 cents because the BBWAA voted the 20th-best player in the league the MVP seven years ago. That was the year Morneau was almost as good as Miguel Tejada.

I was just trying to point out the caliber of player compared to MR. Whether you like him or not at his cost, you can't take that away from him. I think Butler is the right fit here. But I'm not sure that's going to happen.

[OrioleMagic79]

The bolded is simply an untrue statement. He grounded into a lot of them last season but that is not an issue he has had historically. I am guessing having Wieters in front of him in the lineup contributed to his total. Hardy hit into substantially more double plays despite hitting second in the lineup.

I am also of the opinion that a strike out is a lot better then a double play and I would in fact rather see a strike out then a pop up to the infield. At least with a strikeout you know the pitcher had to throw at least three pitches.

OK, so I'll concede if you would like on the GIDP because it was the first season that it was an issue for him. Although I will say that since he has been declining as a hitter over several years, I don't necessarily see why this isn't seen as a problem or even a worry that it may continue. Not to mention he will be getting slower every year as he ages. I am not much for percentage-type stats though, because no matter how his GB/FB ratio appears, he had 19 GIDPs. That could mean that though he doesn't hit many grounders, when he does they cause serious damage.

And the infield pop-up is also a bad out, however it still forces the infield to make a play on the ball. It actually isn't that uncommon to see one drop in front of three infielders who didn't communicate well...

Reynolds has a HUGE hole in his swing, and it isn't something that is new, although it does seem to be getting worse as his HRs were way down last year, and even his average is down (even though it wasn't ever really great)...his OPS was pretty awful too...

He still strikes out 30% of the time he steps up to the plate (that's PAs, not ABs, for ABs it's even higher at 35% of the time), so all of these other stats being down, yet no improvement in other areas, is a bad combo. He walked a bit more this year, but his OPS went down despite a higher walk rate and an identical batting average.

Now that I am looking closer at his trends and stats, can anyone show me a positive trend for him at the plate? I think he looks like he's just going to get worse and worse as time goes on...

That said, he may STILL be the best option we have if some of these other options don't materialize. Like I said, I don't hate the guy, and I do believe clubhouse presence/leadership is a really valuable thing, but I would like to see what else we can do before we just settle on re-signing him. To be honest, his offensive production wouldn't be very challenging to get somewhere else...

I cannot believe that anyone thinks he is truly valuable at the plate. Does anyone think so? I am being honest, I like a good debate...

[DrungoHazewood]

I was just trying to point out the caliber of player compared to MR.

I don't think the BBWAA's opinion of Morneau from 2006 has any bearing on whether he's better or worse than Mark Reynolds in 2013.

[LookinUp]

I'd take Morneau over Reynolds any day of the week. Look at his monthly splits last year. He had two bad months, and one of those he just had no power (Sept) but he still had a .350 OBP.

I admit that I'm biased against Reynolds. I hate his game and think he plays 1B like a clown. OTOH, Morneau might just now be getting close to what he was before the terrible concussions. He's a good target, IMO.

[DrungoHazewood]

I cannot believe that anyone thinks he is truly valuable at the plate. Does anyone think so? I am being honest, I like a good debate...

Of course he is. Is that even up for debate? Over his career his bat has been about 12 wins or 120 runs better than a replacement-level player.

[hoosiers]

I guess we could pay MR to be a zero WAR producer at $10M or Mourneau a 1-2.5 WAR producer at $15M. I'll take Mourneau.

That said, I think there may be another 4-6 1B names in play besides the ones we are hearing about.

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

I still don't see how getting him at a $14 mm salary would be "buying low." Yes, I do discount his 2011 season, but in 2012 he still had a big problem with LHP.

Buying low may have been the wrong word when thought about purely monetarily. I meant buy low in that in this guy's history, he has been MVP caliber and largely due to concussions he has been derailed.

It is a risk no doubt, but I don't think it's unreasonable at all to think that the farther he gets away from this concussion (and in a contract year) he could have a great season. It would be buy low in a sense that they could potentially eat salary and we wouldn't have to give top prospects..

[soxhotcorner14]

I don't think the BBWAA's opinion of Morneau from 2006 has any bearing on whether he's better or worse than Mark Reynolds in 2013.

Agreed, again I was just pointing out that he has a track record of being a very good player. MR's track record has been hitting solo HR's and striking out. The track records speak for them self. But you're right, it's what have you done for me lately league. But if I'm sitting here trying to figure out how I'm going to fill a MOO bat and address first base and my options are narrowing down for one reason or another and I'm down to MR or JM. I'm taking JM everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's over MR's.

[jamalshw]

I don't hate this idea. If you can get the Twins to cover a few million of Morneau's contract and would only ask for fringe parts and/or a mid-level prospect (plus a throw-in or two), then I'd be game. I don't want to lose a significant piece for him, but would happily accept Morneau on the Orioles!

[Babypowder]

I guess we could pay MR to be a zero WAR producer at $10M or Mourneau a 1-2.5 WAR producer at $15M. I'll take Mourneau.

That said, I think there may be another 4-6 1B names in play besides the ones we are hearing about.

Reynolds WAR has been destroyed by atrocious defense at third in the past. He is unlikely to be a historically bad defender at first. If he is averagish or slightly below, his WAR would be higher.

[tommyboy]

The only caveat is can he stay healthy all year.......

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

Agreed, again I was just pointing out that he has a track record of being a very good player. MR's track record has been hitting solo HR's and striking out. The track records speak for them self. But you're right, it's what have you done for me lately league. But if I'm sitting here trying to figure out how I'm going to fill a MOO bat and address first base and my options are narrowing down for one reason or another and I'm down to MR or JM. I'm taking JM everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's over MR's.

I agree with you. Also, Morneau is 2 years removed from an absolutely torrid first half in 2010 pre injury. Not too long ago. I feel like you can't necessarily judge him as a player that's definitely on the decline. He has been affected by injuries, and if he can be healthy, who knows? That's my main point.