Vs. American

[sportsfan14]

Hi all...longtime lurker, infrequent poster.

My dad went to American, and we still live in the area, so I follow them a bit. Normally try to go to their conference tourney home games, as that is AU's entire season essentially. I told my dad a couple weeks ago that if there was a ever a year AU could beat MD, this was it. So we got tickets. I was still shocked.

Thoughts from my untrained eye, as I know many of you couldn't see the game:

-MD led 11-7 for eons. Seriously, worst few minutes of basketball I've ever seen. Not a point was scored between the under 12 timeout and the under 8 timeout. Neither team could shoot at all. Here, the crowd got really restless...chants began to stop.

-Then, out of nowhere, the floodgates opened; AU went on an 8-0 run. That was the turning point in the game, IMO. During MD's long scoreless drought, you could just see AU becoming more and more confident. Taking the lead, and completely taking the crowd out of the game was huge. I think if MD had ever opened up to 7+ pt lead, the game would have been over.

-AU led the rest of the game, IIRC. There was no seesaw-ing at all. The last 19 minutes the lead was always 6-12 points.

-Don't know the final numbers, but from watching the game, I'd guess that AU out-rebounded MD, and outscored them in the paint. MDs big men should be beyond embarrassed, honestly. I couldn't believe MD couldn't at least control those 2 areas. AU really beat them across the board.

As for individual players:

-Vazquez was the only guy who showed up for Maryland. I think he scored about half of your guys' points. The AU guards are literally half a foot shorter...he could pull up for open 3s or drive to the basket whenever he wanted. I was extremely impressed with him...w/o Vazquez, the game would have been absolutely embarrassing.

-As I'm sure you guys know by now, Gist is not who you want as your senior leader. Fouled out with 5-6 minutes left. Was completely passive, despite the fact that he should have been able to outmuscle any and all AU big men. IIRC, he took a random 3 pointer early in the 1st half. I LOLed. It was kinda sad looking. I have no idea what he was thinking. I know he's taken 3s before...but against American? I can't believe Gary didn't scream at him to take it inside.

-Only other player who looked good, IMO, was Dupree. Made a couple nice post moves. AU couldn't defend him whatsoever. I was surprised how little he played.

-Osby looked like he had never seen a basketball before. He was the root of my other LOL moment of the day. Stole the ball in the open court, and spirnted down to the basket. It was a 2 on 1 break. He had absolutely no interest in passing. He slammed right into the AU guy, throwing up a prayer simultaneously. As my dad said, "It looked like he was determined to get an offensive foul."

-Hayes was slow as usual. Mercer blew by him a couple times. Made a bunch of 3s though.

-Neal took 2 3 pointers. Don't ask me why.

Anyway, good luck this year. I really don't see any way this team could make the tourney, but the NIT is still out there. And MD has tons of chances to get big wins. I wouldn't totally abandon hope, although we're fast approaching that point.

[Guest BaltiJo]

Lol, a regular season victory in December against a below-average basketball team? Congrats!!!

You obviously don't understand Patriot League basketball.

It is terrible. Fun, but terrible.

On one other occasion in the past 6 years has AU defeated an ACC team: Florida State in 2002 (I think it was 2002).

Patriot League tourney is a play-in game to the big dance. Saw AU blow that game 3 years in a row.

Rarely do the Eagles have a time to shine. AU fans revel in any opportunity to do so.

[Dr. FLK]

Hi all...longtime lurker, infrequent poster.

My dad went to American, and we still live in the area, so I follow them a bit. Normally try to go to their conference tourney home games, as that is AU's entire season essentially. I told my dad a couple weeks ago that if there was a ever a year AU could beat MD, this was it. So we got tickets. I was still shocked.

Thoughts from my untrained eye, as I know many of you couldn't see the game:

-MD led 11-7 for eons. Seriously, worst few minutes of basketball I've ever seen. Not a point was scored between the under 12 timeout and the under 8 timeout. Neither team could shoot at all. Here, the crowd got really restless...chants began to stop.

-Then, out of nowhere, the floodgates opened; AU went on an 8-0 run. That was the turning point in the game, IMO. During MD's long scoreless drought, you could just see AU becoming more and more confident. Taking the lead, and completely taking the crowd out of the game was huge. I think if MD had ever opened up to 7+ pt lead, the game would have been over.

-AU led the rest of the game, IIRC. There was no seesaw-ing at all. The last 19 minutes the lead was always 6-12 points.

-Don't know the final numbers, but from watching the game, I'd guess that AU out-rebounded MD, and outscored them in the paint. MDs big men should be beyond embarrassed, honestly. I couldn't believe MD couldn't at least control those 2 areas. AU really beat them across the board.

As for individual players:

-Vazquez was the only guy who showed up for Maryland. I think he scored about half of your guys' points. The AU guards are literally half a foot shorter...he could pull up for open 3s or drive to the basket whenever he wanted. I was extremely impressed with him...w/o Vazquez, the game would have been absolutely embarrassing.

-As I'm sure you guys know by now, Gist is not who you want as your senior leader. Fouled out with 5-6 minutes left. Was completely passive, despite the fact that he should have been able to outmuscle any and all AU big men. IIRC, he took a random 3 pointer early in the 1st half. I LOLed. It was kinda sad looking. I have no idea what he was thinking. I know he's taken 3s before...but against American? I can't believe Gary didn't scream at him to take it inside.

-Only other player who looked good, IMO, was Dupree. Made a couple nice post moves. AU couldn't defend him whatsoever. I was surprised how little he played.

-Osby looked like he had never seen a basketball before. He was the root of my other LOL moment of the day. Stole the ball in the open court, and spirnted down to the basket. It was a 2 on 1 break. He had absolutely no interest in passing. He slammed right into the AU guy, throwing up a prayer simultaneously. As my dad said, "It looked like he was determined to get an offensive foul."

-Hayes was slow as usual. Mercer blew by him a couple times. Made a bunch of 3s though.

-Neal took 2 3 pointers. Don't ask me why.

Anyway, good luck this year. I really don't see any way this team could make the tourney, but the NIT is still out there. And MD has tons of chances to get big wins. I wouldn't totally abandon hope, although we're fast approaching that point.

All good points. I disagree about Vasquez. I think his point total is misleading. He scored a lot, sure. But, he was often out of control (like usual). He didn't setup any offensive flow at all. He didn't get anyone else involved. And, he spends too much time talking trash and showboating to the fans to realize that he's down by 9 to an inferior team.

The only thing Gist did all game was block a shot. And, he took that opportunity to talk trash to the AU guy he blocked. The ref pulled Gist aside and almost T'ed him up, and the AU guy actually laughed right in his face while Gist was smack talking.

Dupree should have been a go to guy. He could post up every time down court. But, Gary refuses to adapt his offense, and subsequently refused to pound the ball down low.

Hayes cannot cover anyone, and he can't create his own shot. If he's wide open, he's a nice shooter. Other than that, he's nothing. Unfortunately, Gary thinks he's a starter. I can't imagine what Ty Lawson will do to him.

Neal was on the court because Gary was proving a point. He likes to do that. Instead of coaching or changing his offense, he thinks showing everyone how mad he is will work. Nothing sparks a team like benching your good players to give serious minutes/shots to an inadequate player. Swell move there Gary!

[Dr. FLK]

Maryland is like the fifth-best team in the DC area.

Maybe lower if you count some of the local High Schools and women's teams.

[Todd-O]

This thread will be priceless if Maryland catches fire.

[Dr. FLK]

This thread will be priceless if Maryland catches fire.

Not really. A few wins won't change any of the problems with this team. Gary still will need to be more active in recruiting. They still don't have enough talent. Losing home games to Ohio and AU is still a joke. He still won't know how to play against a zone defense.

A hot streak will just mask the problems with this team and continue perpetuating the belief that the Terps are an elite basketball program.

[Guest BaltiJo]

Not really. A few wins won't change any of the problems with this team. Gary still will need to be more active in recruiting. They still don't have enough talent. Losing home games to Ohio and AU is still a joke. He still won't know how to play against a zone defense.

A hot streak will just mask the problems with this team and continue perpetuating the belief that the Terps are an elite basketball program.

A familiar refrain in this part of the sports geography (ahem, Brian Billick).

[Pedro Cerrano]

I knew someone was going to incorrectly think I was talking about that year.

Lol, look at MD's recent success. The two final fours were surrounded by Juan who was a once-in-a-career type find. A kid that nobody thought could do it and he made it happen. Other than that, we had mild success with Francis who was a top JuCo get and the ACC tourney winners were composed of players who were actually top recruits.

I'd argue we haven't won squat with a team made up of nobodys. This isn't "The Mighty Ducks" or "The Longest Yard" This is real life and, on occasion, you actually need TALENT to win basketball games.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I notice no one has responded directly to my earlier suggestion...

It does take a couple years to get experienced players; that goes without saying, really.

How much of what we are seeing is simple lack of athleticism, and how much is lack of experience?

In two years, are we going to see a veteran-heavy team that can go deep in the tournament on skill over athletics? The two Final-Four teams were veteran-heavy, with only Wilcox as the real young-guy of the group (and also the best athlete).

Could Gary be trying to rebuild THAT?

[OregonBird]

Lol, look at MD's recent success. The two final fours were surrounded by Juan who was a once-in-a-career type find. A kid that nobody thought could do it and he made it happen. Other than that, we had mild success with Francis who was a top JuCo get and the ACC tourney winners were composed of players who were actually top recruits.

I'd argue we haven't won squat with a team made up of nobodys. This isn't "The Mighty Ducks" or "The Longest Yard" This is real life and, on occasion, you actually need TALENT to win basketball games.

Agreed. Let's not forget Steve Blake either who is now playing solid minutes for the Trailblazers. He had great bball IQ, something that hasn't been prized much w/recent recruits. He could also distribute the ball, make a shot and play defense. If I'm not mistaken, he was only recruited by us and Miami.

Basically Gary (or his staff) unearthed some real hidden gems in Dixon, Blake, Baxter.

BTW, is it true that Gary used all his ships in the past few classes and won't have any for next year, barring attrition?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Lol, look at MD's recent success. The two final fours were surrounded by Juan who was a once-in-a-career type find. A kid that nobody thought could do it and he made it happen. Other than that, we had mild success with Francis who was a top JuCo get and the ACC tourney winners were composed of players who were actually top recruits.

I'd argue we haven't won squat with a team made up of nobodys. This isn't "The Mighty Ducks" or "The Longest Yard" This is real life and, on occasion, you actually need TALENT to win basketball games.

You're right. This team has no talent at all. All of the guys we recruited were only being looked at as Division III walk-ons before Gary Williams decided to roll the dice on them being Juan Dixon and Lonny Baxter.

And I seem to remember going to a bunch of Sweet 16s with teams built around Keith Booth and others, and Terrence Morris and others.

I think you are severely underestimating what he has done with players as well. It isn't just Dixon and Baxter.

Joe Smith was a nobody coming in. I don't think Terrence Morris was a superstar when he got here (though I was too young to care about recruiting back then, so I don't know). Steve Francis was supposed to be great, but he wasn't supposed to be one-and-done and a top draft pick after that year. I don't think even Blake was a top recruit.

Maybe all of that was just luck, but we went the athletic top-recruit route and all it did was get us to where we are now.

And with all of the crap Gary took for those classes, do you really blame him for trying what worked in the past? And, honestly, could STILL work?

[accinfo]

Here are the Gary Williams facts:

Gary Williams conference record at ALL schools without Juan Dixon:

194-189 or a whopping .507 winning percentage. Not Hall of Fame material

Gary Williams ACC conference record without Juan Dixon 108-113 or a not so stellar .480 winning percentage.

With Juan Dixon he went 49-15 or a very impressive .766 winning percentage.

Gary Williams over all record without Juan Dixon 481-303 unimpressive .614 winning percentage.

So if Gary Williams can keep finding recruits not in anyones top-100 players that end up being the leading scorer in the history of the school then he will be fine. However lightning has only struck once for that senario. Gary Williams is a very ordinary coach who was very fortunate to find a very special player.

[Three Run Homer]

Maryland has never had a lot of blue chip recruits. What seems to have changed is that the players don't seem to improve from year to year anymore. Baxter and Dixon improved every year and wound up playing in the NBA after coming to the Terp program with no fanfare. Guys like Keith Booth, Laron Profit, Obinna Ekezie and Sarunas Jasikevicus also worked hard and got better every year. But the last few recruiting classes are full of guys who stagnated or even regressed...Gilchrist, Travis Garrison, Nick Caner Medley, James Gist, and Chris McCray are all examples. This year, Osby, Hayes and Vazquez are all arguably playing worse than they did last year.

My guess is that a lot of the Terps' former success was due to assistant coaches like Jimmy Patsos who did a lot of the teaching and motivating, and who have since moved on. Now we get mediocre recruits, and they don't progress.

[Mackus]

There is no one problem that explains Maryland's demise over the past few years. Its a combined issue of some poor planning, poor recruiting, poor development, and some straight up bad luck.

I think its ridiculous to say that Gary should be fired, when you've accomplished what he has, you earn the right to leave on your won terms. We could be winning 8 games a year and Gary still has the right to leave on his terms. When one man single-handedly takes your program from the abyss all the way to a championship, you have to deal with their latter day sins. That said, I don't think that Gary has lost it or will continue to head Maryland into a downward spiral. This is the worst season I've ever experienced as a Maryland fan, but I definitely believe that Gary will adjust to the mistakes he's made over the past few years in terms of program direction and rebuild us into the consistent NCAA tourney team we were throughout the 90's.

[Mackus]

Here are the Gary Williams facts:

Gary Williams conference record at ALL schools without Juan Dixon:

194-189 or a whopping .507 winning percentage. Not Hall of Fame material

Gary Williams ACC conference record without Juan Dixon 108-113 or a not so stellar .480 winning percentage.

With Juan Dixon he went 49-15 or a very impressive .766 winning percentage.

Gary Williams over all record without Juan Dixon 481-303 unimpressive .614 winning percentage.

So if Gary Williams can keep finding recruits not in anyones top-100 players that end up being the leading scorer in the history of the school then he will be fine. However lightning has only struck once for that senario. Gary Williams is a very ordinary coach who was very fortunate to find a very special player.

What a bunch of bullcrap. Gary is a HOF coach. You can't take away what he did with Dixon here, and even if you could, he was still a great coach before that. He's taken 3 schools to the NCAAs, built a major program out of nothing even before Dixon and Baxter walked into Cole, and went to a dozen straight NCAA tournaments. The man is a legend.