Orioles Extend Showalter & Duquette through 2018

[TonySoprano]

Louis Angelos speaks...

"Continuity is important for an organization," Angelos said. "Buck came in and he rejuvenated just about every aspect - what happens on the field, in the dugout and clubhouse. Dan came in and his impact was immediate as well. During the interview process, Dan stood out heads and shoulders above everyone we talked to and we had a great group. He has a depth of experience and his record in Montreal and Boston speaks for itself.

"You can start with a standard three-year deal. But then it becomes, 'Let's go further than that.' This is about building a sustained winning and competitive team. You have two guys that are an unmatched team when you look at the extent of their baseball accomplishments."

Louis Angelos also talked about how the contracts and the deal came together.

"It was principally Mr. Angelos. I had the priviledge of sitting in on a couple of lunches. It was a discussion about building a sustained winner and how are we going to go about that. Look at Dan's international connections. He brought in Wei-Yin Chen, who pitched 192 innings. No one else was talking about Chen. He had a depth of knowledge that is right in line in what Buck is trying to do."

"Someone said we haven't had an eventful offseason," he said. "I would say in many ways, that's a good thing because, as Dan said, the team is a good team. You don't want to trade or sacrifice the future for what's in the immediate. I think Orioles fans know the game really well and they want sustained winning and they want to see the guys come up through the system. You can get away from that and get distracted by a tantalizing free agent or a trade possibility like Dickey, for example. That was a long and considered internal dialogue that went on. But Dan has his vision and it's in line with Buck's vision.

"The notion that it hasn't been an eventful offseason should be interpreted in many ways as good. We are not going to sacrifice draft picks and that is coming right from those guys. I know Mr. Angelos has said, 'You guys want to do it? Let's go for it. But what do you want to?'

source - Steve Melewski

[Frobby]

"Look at Dan's international connections. He brought in Wei-Yin Chen, who pitched 192 innings. No one else was talking about Chen. He had a depth of knowledge that is right in line in what Buck is trying to do."

Chen clearly was on the Orioles' radar screen before Duquette became the GM. The first time I heard of him was in this thread about a dinner where Buck was speaking (about a week before Duquette was hired):

Said the organization has been looking at 3 pitchers from Asia. He thinks Davish is not money well spent. Really likes a Taiwanese lefty who isn't a post player (Can't recall his name, Chen maybe?).

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/115756-Dinner-with-Buck?highlight=Buck

Also, this is from October 18, 2011, more than two weeks before Duquette was hired:

Stockstill was at the Tokyo Dome on Saturday night to watch several players, including Chunichi Dragons 26-year-old lefty Chen Wei-Yin start.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/10/the_orioles_and_japanese_baseb.html

Otherwise, I really liked what Lou Angelos had to say.

[TonySoprano]

Chen clearly was on the Orioles' radar screen before Duquette became the GM. The first time I heard of him was in this thread about a dinner where Buck was speaking (about a week before Duquette was hired):

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/115756-Dinner-with-Buck?highlight=Buck

Also, this is from October 18, 2011, more than two weeks before Duquette was hired:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/10/the_orioles_and_japanese_baseb.html

Otherwise, I really liked what Lou Angelos had to say.

Yeah, there was other revisionist history in his comments, but I was trying to be nice for a change;). For example, Dan "stood out head and shoulders above the rest" not named Dipoto or LaCava. I guess he wants us to forget how the GM search went, because in the end, fortune smiled upon us finally, after a long while.

[Ohfan67]

Louis calls his dad Mr. Angelos? Kind of fits my impression of their family.

[Singleton]

Increasing payroll is not a sure way to win. And most times it's a poor decision, at least with Free Agents. The Orioles are signing their young players to reasonable extensions to take advantage of their prime years. That's a very good decision. The financial flexibility will happen once the Minor League system begins producing players that can cheaply replace higher priced players that can, and should, be traded.

I must have missed it.....what young players have we signed to an extension -- reasonable or unreasonable? As to your second point, our minor league "system" is really dominated by 3 players. I imagine if you stacked our system for the 4th best prospect on we'd have one of the weakest systems in the majors. Obviously, our top 3 count but the idea that our "system" is going to save us seems hopeful.

[luismatos4prez]

Louis calls his dad Mr. Angelos? Kind of fits my impression of their family.

Something like this perhaps?

[scOtt]

He trusts them not to ask for more money.

I trust (even MORE so now) that if Dan asks for more money, when he REALLY means it, that Pete will "pass over the money without even thinking about it. For it is money they have. And peace they lack."

I'll be the lone wolf and say the extension is too long for Buck and too soon for DD.

2012 was a special season. Everyone feels warm and fuzzy and 48 hours before fanfest and a few weeks from spring training is a great time for a positive jolt.

But lets remember that as good as he seems, Buck has been fired from his previous 3 managerial gigs and never stayed in one place for more than 4 seasons. He was fired even after being named manager of the year -- by two different GMs. When he came here, Buck had the rep of being sharp and detailed but one who had a short shelf life. The word was, his exacting nature would wear on players after a while and he'd have to go.

Maybe he has mellowed. Maybe the others got it wrong. I can see rewarding him with a couple of years...but 6?

While I can see some justification for Buck, the DD extension makes me much more nervous. It's been one year. You can count on 1 hand the number of moves of consequence he made last year. He was out of baseball for a long time and there's a reason for that. It's only been a year but it's hard to see much difference in our minor league system. And when you say, "well, it's only been a year" you are justifyng exactly why we don't know enough to make a 6 yr committment.

As we all know and discussed many times, there's plenty of data suggest that the Orioles played over their head last year. There's also data that provides reason for optimism. We don't need to go over it again. But there has to be some doubts even among the believers. Given the competitiveness of the division, would you really be shocked if we finished in last place this year? shocked? How about 4th? If we end up with 78 wins, there will be plenty of frustration and many will look back to the quiet winter of 2013 and wonder why we made a 6 year commit so quickly.

Sorry to be a non-believer and I'll be thrilled to admit later that 6 years was actually too short.

:rofl:

Sorry to single you out like this but SERIOUSLY??? On one hand? Try 30 hands! Moves after moves after moves.

[scOtt]

Yeah, there was other revisionist history in his comments, but I was trying to be nice for a change;). For example, Dan "stood out head and shoulders above the rest" not named Dipoto or LaCava. I guess he wants us to forget how the GM search went, because in the end, fortune smiled upon us finally, after a long while.

Or all the other names...Just judging from the press reports at the time (don't ask for links... I'm just going off memory here.) it DID sound like Duquette DID come in with a really amazing, IIRC two-day, presentation. I'm sure with PowerPoint presentations and 27 8X10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as ev-id-dence against us!

Seriously... It seems to me that at Peter Angelos' and the clubs' worst moment, a star rose in the East. Or ss like that.

[luismatos4prez]

the DD extension makes me much more nervous. It's been one year. You can count on 1 hand the number of moves of consequence he made last year.

These are the moves he made that had positive consequences

1. Hiring Rick Peterson

2. Hiring Fred Ferreira

3. Signing Miguel Gonzalez

4. Signing Nate McLouth

5. Bringing up Manny Machado

6. Signing Wei-Yin Chen

7. Drafting Ryan Flaherty

8. Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom

9. Lindstrom for Saunders

10. Signing Adam Jones to an extension

11. Signing Luis Ayala

12. Adding Steve Johnson to the 40 man roster

13. Jim Thome trade

14. Omar Quintanilla trade

15. Steve Pearce

16. Steve Tolleson

17. Randy Wolf

18. Wilson Betemit

19. Nick Johnson

I just missed all your hands and toes.

[scOtt]

These are the moves he made that had positive consequences

1. Hiring Rick Peterson

2. Hiring Fred Ferreira

3. Signing Miguel Gonzalez

4. Signing Nate McLouth

5. Bringing up Manny Machado

6. Signing Wei-Yin Chen

7. Drafting Ryan Flaherty

8. Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom

9. Lindstrom for Saunders

10. Signing Adam Jones to an extension

11. Signing Luis Ayala

12. Adding Steve Johnson to the 40 man roster

13. Jim Thome trade

14. Omar Quintanilla trade

15. Steve Pearce

16. Steve Tolleson

17. Randy Wolf

18. Wilson Betemit

19. Nick Johnson

I just missed all your hands and toes.

This list is still incomplete! You missed the ECON guy and the training guy (not Brady) and BRADY!

[Singleton]

These are the moves he made that had positive consequences

1. Hiring Rick Peterson

2. Hiring Fred Ferreira

3. Signing Miguel Gonzalez

4. Signing Nate McLouth

5. Bringing up Manny Machado

6. Signing Wei-Yin Chen

7. Drafting Ryan Flaherty

8. Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom

9. Lindstrom for Saunders

10. Signing Adam Jones to an extension

11. Signing Luis Ayala

12. Adding Steve Johnson to the 40 man roster

13. Jim Thome trade

14. Omar Quintanilla trade

15. Steve Pearce

16. Steve Tolleson

17. Randy Wolf

18. Wilson Betemit

19. Nick Johnson

I just missed all your hands and toes.

You forgot he signed Wada and though he was on the DL I'm sure he did something to help and I heard that DD made sure there was a different kind of mustard for the after game spread and that surely made a difference too :rolleyestf:

First, I didn't say "positive consequences" -- I said moves of "consequence." It has a different meaning and when you look it up in the dictionary, I promise you will not find any connection to Nick Johnson's 2012 season in which he batted .202 and struck out 25% of the time. Randy Wolf's 5 appearances, Steve Tolleson, Pearc, Omar etc. Not moves of consequence. Every GM makes a bunch of moves in every season. Many of the moves you list are pretty silly -- others are legit. I'm not going to take them move by move because this isn't about bashing DD. I'm just saying I wouldn't give him a 6 year contract based on one year of work in which his team overperformed according to several metrics. He made some good moves but maybe we can admit there is also the possibility that we/he got a bit lucky. Lets put it this way -- if another MLB team was convinced that McLouth's 2nd half was for real, we would never have been able to resign him for the modest terms to which he agreed.

If we have another great year (ie more data) than I'd be more likely to give him more years. I'm just not there yet.

[Brendan25]

These are the moves he made that had positive consequences

1. Hiring Rick Peterson

2. Hiring Fred Ferreira

3. Signing Miguel Gonzalez

4. Signing Nate McLouth

5. Bringing up Manny Machado

6. Signing Wei-Yin Chen

7. Drafting Ryan Flaherty

8. Guthrie for Hammel and Lindstrom

9. Lindstrom for Saunders

10. Signing Adam Jones to an extension

11. Signing Luis Ayala

12. Adding Steve Johnson to the 40 man roster

13. Jim Thome trade

14. Omar Quintanilla trade

15. Steve Pearce

16. Steve Tolleson

17. Randy Wolf

18. Wilson Betemit

19. Nick Johnson

I just missed all your hands and toes.

Calling up Matusz to pitch in bullpen.

Siging Lew Ford

Signing Bill Hall

[Singleton]

Calling up Matusz to pitch in bullpen.

Siging Lew Ford

Signing Bill Hall

Thank goodness he signed Bill Hall. The 14 at bats he had for the club (in which he got 2 hits) really made all the difference.

[luismatos4prez]

You forgot he signed Wada and though he was on the DL I'm sure he did something to help and I heard that DD made sure there was a different kind of mustard for the after game spread and that surely made a difference too :rolleyestf:

First, I didn't say "positive consequences" -- I said moves of "consequence." It has a different meaning and when you look it up in the dictionary, I promise you will not find any connection to Nick Johnson's 2012 season in which he batted .202 and struck out 25% of the time. Randy Wolf's 5 appearances, Steve Tolleson, Pearc, Omar etc. Not moves of consequence. Every GM makes a bunch of moves in every season. Many of the moves you list are pretty silly -- others are legit. I'm not going to take them move by move because this isn't about bashing DD. I'm just saying I wouldn't give him a 6 year contract based on one year of work in which his team overperformed according to several metrics. He made some good moves but maybe we can admit there is also the possibility that we/he got a bit lucky. Lets put it this way -- if another MLB team was convinced that McLouth's 2nd half was for real, we would never have been able to resign him for the modest terms to which he agreed.

If we have another great year (ie more data) than I'd be more likely to give him more years. I'm just not there yet.

You've already forgotten what it's like to have a slow to react GM at the helm.

Had McPhail stayed on another year, we'd be looking at something like

Guthrie

Arrieta

Hunter

Matusz

Tillman

as the OD rotation. Guthrie would have been good. Maybe a deadline deal for a surprisingly good prospect haul. Arrieta, Hunter, Matusz, and Tillman would have stunk and they wouldn't have gotten replaced until they got injured. Tillman would never have fixed his mechanics with Rick Peterson.

Of the guys who started for us in the playoffs, not a single one would have ever been an Oriole. Including Tillman with the cleaner mechanics.

Once Reimold got hurt, you're looking at Xavier Avery all year. Markakis is hurt? LJ Hoes time. Reynolds stays at 3B all year. Davis at 1B. Who does he sign for DH? Luke Scott maybe.

[isestrex]

You've already forgotten what it's like to have a slow to react GM at the helm.

Had McPhail stayed on another year, we'd be looking at something like

Guthrie

Arrieta

Hunter

Matusz

Tillman

as the OD rotation. Guthrie would have been good. Maybe a deadline deal for a surprisingly good prospect haul. Arrieta, Hunter, Matusz, and Tillman would have stunk and they wouldn't have gotten replaced until they got injured. Tillman would never have fixed his mechanics with Rick Peterson.

Of the guys who started for us in the playoffs, not a single one would have ever been an Oriole. Including Tillman with the cleaner mechanics.

Once Reimold got hurt, you're looking at Xavier Avery all year. Markakis is hurt? LJ Hoes time. Reynolds stays at 3B all year. Davis at 1B. Who does he sign for DH? Luke Scott maybe.

My first reaction is to chide you for assuming NO moves will be made and to remind you that even AM would have made 2012 look at least a little more deeper than 2011...

...but my logical side admits that this is probably very close to what would have happened... <a href="http://s1106.photobucket.com/albums/h367/isestrex/Emoticons/?action=view&current=eusa_shifty.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h367/isestrex/Emoticons/eusa_shifty.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>