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Jim Johnson Today, 2013

OFFNY

By OFFNY
in Orioles Talk

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
Posted
This argument makes no sense.

It's like saying it's not the car's fault it broke down on the way to work, you should have bought a new one before you left. It got you to work before..why not today?

Also it is factually inaccurate as it ignores how much the players already on the team have improved.

Chris Davis Hitting 50 Home runs at 1B instead of Mark Reynolds? Sounds like a upgrade.

2B play has been better, especially in the 2nd half of the season with Roberts back.

Manny Machado is better this season than any 3B we could have signed

McLouth for a full season is better than most LF on market that we could attain

Hardy is better than last year at the plate.

DH has not been hot, but that is mostly due to Betimeit and Nolan being injured.

Offensively, the only declines would be Markakis and Wieters, and those positions would not have been "upgraded" in the off season.

Now in terms of starting pitching, we went into camp with 10 pitchers who had a chance at starting, and the early part of the season was a mess while we waded though them. That said, you don't goe signing expensive free agent pitchers with the way Britton pitched the end of last year, and the upside Arietta had. Even still, Tillman is a better ace this year than Hammel was last. Also, when the Orioles SP was bad, they were still in contention. Now that their SP is pitching at an above average level, they are losing hard luck loses from what I think is emotional burnout.

What has failed this team is the bullpen. I was here over the winter, and that was the last place people were suggesting we needed upgrades. The bottom line is, Jim Johnson only blows 4-5 saves and this team is in a WC spot, and has a completely different vibe about it. Anyone who cannot see that needs to put their common sense glasses on.

Your analysis is flawed. You minimize that the contribution from 2B for much of the year was beyond bad, it was ABYSMAL- the worst offensive display by Orioles 2nd baseman in franchise history would be accurate and the losses due to this lack of contribution cost us just as much as those lost in any other fashion. You minimize the DH lack of production as "not hot. Try ABYSMAL, as in worst in the history of having DHs. There were NL pitchers who contributed more at the plate than our DH slot. You laughingly describe our SP as at above average level when it is the MLB leader in HRs allowed and by a big margin over that ace Astros staff. Last winter it was the opinion of many that we needed at least one other legitimate SP, we needed upgrades at DH and 2b and that the hope and prayer response of Reimold, Roberts, Flaherty, Casilla was NEVER going to work. It hasn't. And Johnson, Wieters, Markakis also have had worse years than expected.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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Posted
But I see everyone analyzing Bucks moves, DD's moves, RISP, and so forth...

Here is my take, and it is much simpler. This team is very similar to last year, and the combination of an offense that makes it power almost exclusively through the long ball, and weak starting pitching means that they are going to play a lot of close games. It is the makeup of the team.

The difference is, we cannot close games this year plain and simple. Whose job is it to close games? Jim Johnson.

What I am saying is we can go crazy blaming people, but the simple facts are if JJ only blew 4-5 saves this year, and held a few tied games where they were, we would be in the wild card. I am going to go a step further and say that his failures have also taken a toll on the team emotionally that you can't show statistically. Just the general funk, and bad mojo 8 blown saves, and a few tied games lost by one person causes is at least worth 4-5 more losses IMO. It makes the whole team press and really ruins the vibe.

Oh good grief. JJ has been beaten over head with blame. Enough is enough.

It seems weird to me that fans are bashing one of their own. I know this goes on

in every MLB city. But I support the O's. In my way of thinking JJ has had a bad

year. I support JJ like any player on the O's. I have always been for the underdog

That it is just the way I am. Sorry but I just don't feel easy bashing one of our

own. IMO

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Spoonless All-Star

Spoonless

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What I am saying is we can go crazy blaming people, but the simple facts are if JJ only blew 4-5 saves this year, and held a few tied games where they were, we would be in the wild card.
Sure, and the same thing can be said for all of the losses that JJ didn't cause. If they could have pulled 4-5 wins out of any of those, the team would be in the wild card.

Look, I'm not saying that JJ isn't deserving of a decent amount of blame, here, but the O's have lost what, 70 games? I'm sure you can go through those 70 losses and find a multitude of games that the O's should have won but didn't, that have nothing to do with JJ.

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Rene88 Hangout Grand Counsel

Rene88

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Oh don't be a child.

Oh you would think the man was the son of a god the way people are rushing to his defense. It isn't personal, it is a game. It isn't his fault Buck keeps putting him in despite him being ineffective.

Don't take my word for it. Ask DD. He had so much confidence in JJ, he gave up a decent prospect for a closer. And guess what? He was never used as such, dirty shame.

I am sure JJ is a great guy, but he has been awful. Everyone knows it but a few on here and Buck.

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24fps Hangout Grand Counsel

24fps

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Posted
Oh you would think the man was the son of a god the way people are rushing to his defense. It isn't personal, it is a game. It isn't his fault Buck keeps putting him in despite him being ineffective.

Don't take my word for it. Ask DD. He had so much confidence in JJ, he gave up a decent prospect for a closer. And guess what? He was never used as such, dirty shame.

I am sure JJ is a great guy, but he has been awful. Everyone knows it but a few on here and Buck.

DD gave up a decent prospect for a relief pitcher. KRod's given up 8 ER in 18.2 innings since he was acquired on July 25. In that same time frame JJ's given up 4 in 17.2 innings. Dirty shame indeed.

Nobody is contesting that JJ's performance this year hasn't left something to be desired. This thread and the whole argument that the presumed failure of the 2013 O's to make the post season lies squarely at JJ's feet is simplistic to the point of being cartoonish.

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Rene88 Hangout Grand Counsel

Rene88

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DD gave up a decent prospect for a relief pitcher. KRod's given up 8 ER in 18.2 innings since he was acquired on July 25. In that same time frame JJ's given up 4 in 17.2 innings. Dirty shame indeed.

And if he had been used as a closer? Maybe a different result, maybe not but you can not presume you would get the same result.

I am not writing to sing the praises of Krod. I am simply saying you cannot hold anyone on this board accountable it seems.

JJ has been awful. End of story. He is not the only reason we will not make the playoffs but a large part of it.

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blid Major Leaguer Rising Star

blid

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Yeah, I gotta say, I can follow along when you talk about how if JJ was an average closer, we'd have a relatively secure wild card slot right now. That's true. But at the same time, I'm at a complete loss as to who else should be closing. In fact, I don't have a problem with Buck continuing to close with JJ at this point. The only alternative for awhile has been Tommy, but Tommy just recently has blown two "saves" or w/e. So whatever. I wish we had a better option but right now our bullpen is pretty shoddy.

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