Davis didn't get bigger, he got better

[Mondo Trasho]

Also, Larry Bigbie, David Segui, and Jay Gibbons were linked to PEDs (with various levels of evidence IIRC). And yet, while they were here it didn't help us win any games and none of them even played at an All-Star level. If steroids were magic pills, why didn't the magic work with them?

[weams]

[avdeuph]

I understand that it is possible for a player to not exhibit the physical signs of usage, but certainly the fact of not exhibiting signs of usage, at the very least, contributes in a complimentary way to the statement by Crush that he is not using. By contrast, for example, if he was getting larger, it would contribute to the opposite case, despite also not being "hard" evidence for the case of using PEDs (i.e., PEDs are not the only way to get larger). So it doesn't prove anything, but it helps the case and I think is an important point for media and fans to consider.

[weams]

2003 National Showcase

Jun 13, 2003 - Jun 15, 2003 White 22

University of Nebraska - Lincoln, NE

Named to Top Prospect List

CHRIS DAVIS

1B RHP 6-3 205 L/R

He has an excellent athletic body at 6-2, 200 lbs, has an easy, natural athletic gait to all his actions and really looks like he enjoys competing. The first impression of Davis’ bat was just as good, as he put on a great batting practice display. He hit 4 balls out of the park into the wind in fair territory, plus a couple more that just curled foul, and blasted one ball over the berm and walkway in right field clear over the second fence and into the parking lot. Davis takes a full, hard cut and generates very good bat speed with some lift at the end. His load and trigger in batting practice was calm and easy but that disappeared during the game, thus the source of one problem. Facing live pitching, Davis rose up on his toes as he loaded and dropped down quickly as he started his swing, thus dramatically changing his eye level as the ball approached the plate. He also showed problems keeping his hands back and struggled making contact with off-speed pitches.

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=6615

[Ohfan67]

Also, Larry Bigbie, David Segui, and Jay Gibbons were linked to PEDs (with various levels of evidence IIRC). And yet, while they were here it didn't help us win any games and none of them even played at an All-Star level. If steroids were magic pills, why didn't the magic work with them?

There's actually a lot of evidence that it DID help Sequi and Gibbons perform at higher than expected levels that allowed them to get big contracts that they otherwise would not.

[avdeuph]

Re: all these pictures

Showing a picture of somebody who is very young and has not necessarily "grown into their body," (see: Machado in a few years) is not convincing to me. If the change occurred from the ages of 24-30 that would be more significant.

[Mondo Trasho]

There's actually a lot of evidence that it DID help Sequi and Gibbons perform at higher than expected levels that allowed them to get big contracts that they otherwise would not.

Right. But the point is PEDs aren't magic. They don't make you into an All-Star.

[Mondo Trasho]

Re: all these pictures

Showing a picture of somebody who is very young and has not necessarily "grown into their body," (see: Machado in a few years) is not convincing to me. If the change occurred from the ages of 24-30 that would be more significant.

Yeah I'm a bigger guy at 25 than I was at 18. Not that I was necessarily "skinny" back then. But, I'm definitely bigger muscularly. It's called working out...

[OrangeJerseys]

Words are wind.

[OsEatAlEast]

What I mean is what's the difference between using protein powder or whey or some other "legal" over the counter training product and using a PED? The only difference really is a pharmacy and/or a prescription. Yes, yes, I know that PEDs are better and work faster than protein shakes and whey and wheat grass. But, as far as I'm aware Roger Maris and Babe Ruth weren't able to head to a GNC for products that would help them gain muscle mass or watch youtube videos on the right way to workout. Even if Bonds had never used PEDs, he still would have had huge advantages over past players. And that's not even counting park dimensions as I mentioned, or equipment (body armor on the elbow, batting helmet).

I personally do not see the issue with PEDs. Of course, MLB can ban whatever substance it wants, it's their league not mine. But I'm not outraged by it. I won't be outraged when parents start picking genes out for their children that make them better at sports. Life will go on.

I'm not the best at explaining this but I'll give it a try.

The difference between what you can pick up a GNC and PED's is this. Supplements (what you can pick up at GNC) are supposed to work with your natural body chemistry. PED's actually change the way your body chemistry works and are probably 10 fold the effects of most supplements.

As far as Maris and Ruth having a huge disadvantage I tend to agree with that except for one thing.

Ruth and Maris probably ate more whole foods than modern day players. Most likely they had better vision and reflexes just for that fact alone. I don't think it's a coincidence that players strike out on average of about three times more than their counterparts in the pre 1970's MLB.

[Mondo Trasho]

I'm not the best at explaining this but I'll give it a try.

The difference between what you can pick up a GNC and PED's is this. Supplements (what you can pick up at GNC) are supposed to work with your natural body chemistry. PED's actually change the way your body chemistry works and are probably 10 fold the effects of most supplements.

As far as Maris and Ruth having a huge disadvantage I tend to agree with that except for one thing.

Ruth and Maris probably ate more whole foods than modern day players. Most likely they had better vision and reflexes just for that fact alone. I don't think it's a coincidence that players strike out on average of about three times more than their counterparts in the pre 1970's MLB.

I understand what the scientific difference is. But, I don't look at PEDs as "cheating" but GNC supplements as "kosher". I understand I'm in the severe minority on this. But, PEDs are not the apocalypse. The effects are way overblown in comparison to other things that impact player performance and specifically home runs (since that's what everyone is most worried about).

Very soon, we'll be seeing parents selecting genes for their unborn children that will drastically alter body makeup and talent level, etc. Good luck keeping that out of sports. Much better, IMO, to just deal with it in other ways beyond relying on testing and bans.

[weams]

Re: all these pictures

Showing a picture of somebody who is very young and has not necessarily "grown into their body," (see: Machado in a few years) is not convincing to me. If the change occurred from the ages of 24-30 that would be more significant.

Oh, I think he looks huge in all the photos.

[El Gordo]

Thanks, now it's very clear why Davis is hitting more HR. He shaved.

[OsEatAlEast]

Very soon, we'll be seeing parents selecting genes for their unborn children that will drastically alter body makeup and talent level, etc. Good luck keeping that out of sports. Much better, IMO, to just deal with it in other ways beyond relying on testing and bans.

I agree with this! But it is probably skewed by the fact that one of my favorite movies of all time is "Gattaca". What did the doctor say to the parents in that movie? [paraphrasing]"Keep in mind that we aren't changing anything. Your child will simply be the best of both of you."

[Slappy]

If guys like Rick Reilly have proof of Davis juicing, put it out there.

Otherwise, shut the hell up.