The BRob Effect

[Can_of_corn]

Oh i know this is a negative thread from way back, and i can believe the posts on here. It just gets ridiculous at times.

The Roberts situation is ridiculous at all times.

For every poster that digs up a thread when he gets caught stealing there is a poster that digs up a thread when he hits a home run.

[CA-ORIOLE]

The Roberts situation is ridiculous at all times.

For every poster that digs up a thread when he gets caught stealing there is a poster that digs up a thread when he hits a home run.

Even the posts criticizing the steal last night and his defense etc have been complementary about his offense. Which is good, but certainly not great by any means.

[Frobby]

From the morning of July 10:

I think BRob is likely to outhit Flaherty by a substantial margin for the rest of the year. That's just my opinion. .

I'd take that bet. How about if Roberts does outhit (by OPS) Flaherty from this point on I'll take you to a game and if Flaherty outhits Roberts, you take me to a game in your sweet seats? BTW, it's not that I think Flaherty is some great hitter, it's just that I have little reason to believe that Roberts is a .600+ OPS guy over a sustained time period in the big leagues any more.

Done. However, I'll take you to a game in my sweet seats regardless of who wins the bet. And if I win, I'd like to go to a Baysox game on a day EdRod is pitching and get the benefit of seeing how you scout a prospect.

Well, here is how it worked out. First of all, Tony won the bet. Flaherty hit .850 OPS the rest of the season (.254/.342/.507), while BRob hit .726 (.253/.321/.404). Flaherty basically won the bet for Tony last Tuesday. Up to that point, he had only a .683 OPS from July 10 on, but he had a two-homer game that day that raised his OPS all the way to .847 in a single game, because his playing time had been so limited. So, congrats to Tony for winning the bet.

Second of all, I already paid off the bet, sort of. I had invited Tony to the Sept. 24 game, but then later a Hangout Night was scheduled for that same night. So, Tony was with the Hangouters most of the night, but spent about 3 innings in the "sweet seats" with me. But, I'll probably give him another shot at those seats next year.

Finally, the good news is that both players did pretty well from the day we made the bet forward. On the day of the bet, Flaherty had a .620 OPS and Roberts was at .581. Tony had said above that "I have little reason to believe that Roberts is a .600+ OPS guy over a sustained time period in the big leagues any more," and that turned out to be wrong, as Roberts posted .726 after that and .704 for the year. At the same time, Flaherty has given us some reason to hope that if he gets consistent playing time for a whole year, he can hit a lot better than his overall .683 this year and .658 for his career. It's interesting to note that he finished both of his two big league seasons strong after a miserable start:

2012: .411 OPS in his first 83 PA; .820 OPS in his final 84 PA from June 28 on.

2013: .476 OPS in his first 158 PA; .969 in his final 114 PA from June 18 on.

Here's hoping that, whatever Flaherty's role is in 2014, he can get off to a better start and give himself a better opportunity to put up solid numbers for the whole year.

[mdbdotcom]

...

Here's hoping that, whatever Flaherty's role is in 2014, he can get off to a better start and give himself a better opportunity to put up solid numbers for the whole year.

I was glad to hear Palmer say yesterday that Flaherty will stay in Baltimore this winter to work with BJ Surhoff on his hitting. The funny part was Palmer relating how Flaherty asked him if Surhoff had been a good hitter.

[weams]

Those are some pretty sweet seats BTW

[Redskins Rick]

The Roberts situation is ridiculous at all times.

For every poster that digs up a thread when he gets caught stealing there is a poster that digs up a thread when he hits a home run.

I still can't believe there is so much hate and love for the same player. Totally amazing.

[Frobby]

[

I was glad to hear Palmer say yesterday that Flaherty will stay in Baltimore this winter to work with BJ Surhoff on his hitting. The funny part was Palmer relating how Flaherty asked him if Surhoff had been a good hitter.

I was very glad to hear that, too. I assume the Orioles referred Flaherty to Surhoff, since Flaherty knows so little about him.

[Can_of_corn]

[

I was very glad to hear that, too. I assume the Orioles referred Flaherty to Surhoff, since Flaherty knows so little about him.

Or, apparently, how to use Google.

[Tony-OH]

Well, here is how it worked out. First of all, Tony won the bet. Flaherty hit .850 OPS the rest of the season (.254/.342/.507), while BRob hit .726 (.253/.321/.404). Flaherty basically won the bet for Tony last Tuesday. Up to that point, he had only a .683 OPS from July 10 on, but he had a two-homer game that day that raised his OPS all the way to .847 in a single game, because his playing time had been so limited. So, congrats to Tony for winning the bet.

Second of all, I already paid off the bet, sort of. I had invited Tony to the Sept. 24 game, but then later a Hangout Night was scheduled for that same night. So, Tony was with the Hangouters most of the night, but spent about 3 innings in the "sweet seats" with me. But, I'll probably give him another shot at those seats next year.

Finally, the good news is that both players did pretty well from the day we made the bet forward. On the day of the bet, Flaherty had a .620 OPS and Roberts was at .581. Tony had said above that "I have little reason to believe that Roberts is a .600+ OPS guy over a sustained time period in the big leagues any more," and that turned out to be wrong, as Roberts posted .726 after that and .704 for the year. At the same time, Flaherty has given us some reason to hope that if he gets consistent playing time for a whole year, he can hit a lot better than his overall .683 this year and .658 for his career. It's interesting to note that he finished both of his two big league seasons strong after a miserable start:

2012: .411 OPS in his first 83 PA; .820 OPS in his final 84 PA from June 28 on.

2013: .476 OPS in his first 158 PA; .969 in his final 114 PA from June 18 on.

Here's hoping that, whatever Flaherty's role is in 2014, he can get off to a better start and give himself a better opportunity to put up solid numbers for the whole year.

Thanks for the seats. That was a fun few innings in a game that ended up not too fun.

Roberts did hit a bit better than I predicted but he basically was a replacement level player the rest of the season. My entire reasoning for playing Flaherty was that I thought he gave us the best chance at performing above that low threshold and in the playing time that Buck gave him, he did just that.

It's the nature of the business that highly paid former stars drag their teams down at the end of the careers/contracts. The Orioles are not the only team that have played overpaid former stars on a full-time basis when it's clear their skills no longer deserve this. It's a very tough line for a manager walk, but in my mind, true leadership is doing what's best for the organization and if that means sitting the vet for a younger better player, the best managers will do just that. I have a ton of respect for Buck as a baseball man, and honestly as a human being, but I do have concerns that he's similar to former manager Mike Hargrove in that he's never seen a veteran that he didn't want to play.

Buck is loyal to a fault and that's why we saw Dan Duquette release Taylor Teagarden when he really didn't have to. It was the only way to keep Buck from playing him. Duquette wanted to take a look at Clevinger and he knew Buck would play Teagarden over Clevinger. This is why I don't think Duquette will resign Roberts at any price. There is only one way to keep Buck from playing a guy like Roberts full-time and that's by not having him on the roster.

Next year, if Markakis does not rebound, he will be the albatross that Buck runs out there every game. I just hope he has a rebound year in him because I can see one of these threads for Marakakis next year.

[LA2]

Thanks for the seats. That was a fun few innings in a game that ended up not too fun.

Roberts did hit a bit better than I predicted but he basically was a replacement level player the rest of the season. My entire reasoning for playing Flaherty was that I thought he gave us the best chance at performing above that low threshold and in the playing time that Buck gave him, he did just that.

It's the nature of the business that highly paid former stars drag their teams down at the end of the careers/contracts. The Orioles are not the only team that have played overpaid former stars on a full-time basis when it's clear their skills no longer deserve this. It's a very tough line for a manager walk, but in my ind, true leadership is doing what's best for the organization and if that means sitting the vet for a younger better player, the best managers will do just that. I have a ton of respect for Buck as a baseball man, and honestly as a human being, but I do have concerns that he's similar to former manager Mike Hargrove in that he's never seen a veteran that he didn't want to play.

Buck is loyal to a fault and that's why we saw Dan Duquette release Taylor Teagarden when he really didn't have to. It was the only way to keep Buck from playing him. Duquette wanted to take a look at Clevinger and he knew Buck would play Teagarden over Clevinger. This is why I don't think Duquette will resign Roberts at any price. There is only one way to keep Buck from playing a guy like Roberst full-time and that's by not having him on the roster.

Next year, if Markakis does not rebound, he will be the albatross that Buck runs out there every game. I just hope he has a rebound year in him because I can see one of these threads for Marakakis next year.

Intriguing insight into Duquette's and Buck's relationship. Thanks.

The decision-making around Roberts is going to be interesting to follow. It goes without saying that he provided so much during the lean years that I feel sad that the team didn't make it into the postseason and give him the opportunity to be a comeback hero. He certainly gave it his all in every aspect of his diminishing game.

[MurphDogg]

Roberts did hit a bit better than I predicted but he basically was a replacement level player the rest of the season.

No he wasn't. He was basically a league average player.

[Dipper9]

Next year, if Markakis does not rebound, he will be the albatross that Buck runs out there every game. I just hope he has a rebound year in him because I can see one of these threads for Marakakis next year.

You'll be happy to know Kakes isn't one of my "boys" so I won't be on here defending him!

[Tony-OH]

BTW Frobby, Roberts raised his OPS .040 points in his last six games of the season from .664 to .704. DWar apparently does not take into account the amount of times the Orioles did not complete a double play because of a Roberts miscue, Can't assume a double play but I can think of at least four times that Roberts was unable to complete a simple routine double play.

Ok, that's the last thing I'm going to say on the guy. Thanks for the memories but time to move on to better players that will help the Orioles get back to the playoffs. Their may not be a "Roberts effect" that other players suddenly start doing poorly with him around, but I do think he was not the best player for the everyday second base job. I stand by that statement and will always stand by that. That doesn't make me a "hater" as some would like to call me, it means I just thought Flaherty had a higher upside and gave the Orioles a better chance to win games on a daily basis.

[Tony-OH]

You'll be happy to know Kakes isn't one of my "boys" so I won't be on here defending him!

I'm sure there are enough fanboys of him that it won't matter.

[Dipper9]

I'm sure there are enough fanboys of him that it won't matter.

Even some "Oldfan" boys! :rofl: