Per the Sun: "Orioles most inactive team..."

[scOtt]

C'mon. Lets have a discussion where we just make our points and don't exaggerate the others I just want the GM to have a plan to either win now or win in the future. Im not sure of "the plan" right now will accomplish either.

And not to single you out Singleton.

And on December 12th I don't think any plan is revealed to any of us plebes. I think DD is doing the VERY best he can with the paltry funds he has at his disposal.

He doesn't even HAVE a plan. I mean, he has an overall plan, players he has targeted from his scouting, but it's a completely dynamic plan. "Who can I get today?" Constantly exploring every avenue he can to improve the team. Any deal. Huge, medium or miniscule.

RELAX! At least wait to have a slightly informed opinion in ST when we all see what roster we might go to war with. All this bickering and fighting and neg repping is RIDICULOUS on December freaking 12th! Just bad blood being sent and spent around the board that is NOT productive.

[scOtt]

The Andrea True Connection, 1976.

You're an elite warrior Patrick!

[video=youtube;IPF4xuqNMn8]

[ledzepp8]

Well there you go.

All the MASN money. All the luxury tax loot. All the increased revenues from merchandising leading us to being the #7 franchise in value but they won't spend.

They won't spend anything.

When even the friggin' Sun is calling them out, it's clear there's a problem. A serious problem.

SOURCE: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-as-winter-meetings-wrap-up-orioles-still-without-a-major-move-20131212,0,2969293.story

And...

They're squabbling with Balfour over a third year. Seriously?!?!

All the good players are going off the table and we're hiding our cards, afraid to walk away to make a deal of any kind.

This is crazy. I've never seen a team run this way in my life. I thought with the 2 good years behind us they would make a true commitment to a winning season, but it's still the same old nickle-and-dime Angelos Os.

Damn.

:slytf:

MSK

Who is gone that you wanted?

[tntoriole]

Earth to entitled fans, it is a business.

"entitled fans"= Customers. Do you understand that in most businesses, when you alienate your customers you lose your business? But not in the taxpayer subsidized, build the stadium and give it away to wealthy owners business.

[Barnaby Graves]

So what? Seems to me that PA was a pretty good business man to get those things done. Were any promises made, as to what his payroll would be going forward when these things were negotiated? Were there any provisions made, so that any group of a hundred or so message board posters should be able to dictate his spending? Did you protest those deals at the time? If so, I guess not hard enough. Did you not protest and trust him? If so, shame on you.

This board is a great place to talk and even argue about the Orioles. But it has become a place where a bunch of crybabies come to ***** and moan. Lets put it out there....

Peter Angelos owns this team. You don't. You never will. The Fans don't. The city of Baltimore doesn't. Nor will it ever. PA owes you Zero, nothing, nada. He owes the city nothing, zero, nada. He is a cold blooded businessman, that bought the team as a way to make money. Make money. I find it funny, that the same fan, that says that player A should make as much money as he can, doesn't feel the same about PA. Shouldn't he make as much money as he can? I mean if PA should make less money for the sake of the fans and the city, shouldn't JJ have done the same thing and agreed to a team friendly deal? Shouldn't Matt Wieters take much less money to stay in Baltimore when the time comes? Doesn't he owe the fans and the city? It is rubbish. The Orioles were 15th in team payroll last year. 5, count them 5 teams that made the playoffs, that is half the teams, had lower payrolls.

This place is starting to remind me of a warehouse at lunch break, where every fork lift operator is talking about how the CEO doesn't know how to run the company and he can do better.

I agree with most of this, maybe I'd be a little more diplomatic but it's basically right. And it gets to the underlying truth of the matter, that money isn't the key, it's talent evaluation and development. Last year, the Angels, Rays, and Blue Jays proved this in their own ways. And Miami before that.

[TradeAngelos]

PA isn't even on Forbes billionaire list. Don't let those facts get in the way. MLB will disagree with you on with regards to the O's debt.

Now maybe your problem with PA is clouding your "experience" in a $1 billion valued company.. but you have very little knowledge to make guesses on what's the O's finances are like and you should know not to do that.. since you are "experienced".

Very little knowledge huh? Guesses?

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html

Not quite.

[Rene88]

Poor Angelos isn't a billionaire boohooooo....

Out of people to sue?

Cell phone brain rumors run driy?

I am sure his close family members are quite wealthy: John, etc.

Tax benefits of spreading around the wealth ...

Let's not fool ourselves here..he has plenty of dough.

[Roll Tide]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/red-sox-designate-alex-castellanos.html

This guy has some pop. Red Sox picked him up when Dodgers waived him, now Red Sox DFA him to make room on 40-man for Napoli. Do we have a spot for him on our 40-man? Worth a shot?

Also same situation for Corey Brown with the Nationals.

This guy really hasnt been given much of a shot in the majors. He has a pretty good bat and obp in the minors.

[MemorialStadKid]

This sums it all up neatly:

SOURCE: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10127149/mlb-offseason-winners-losers

They'd spent two years rebuilding an era of good vibes and repairing much of the damage of the lost decade that preceded it. But the vibes emanating from the Orioles' offseason so far have been anything but euphoric. The dumping of Johnson sent shock waves through their organization. Their free-agent targets have been mostly low-budget. And their biggest offseason acquisition so far has been a reliever (Ryan Webb) who got nontendered by the Marlins.

"They look like a team that's caught in between," said one exec. "They act like they don't have any money, although I'm not sure why. They're a little short on having enough talent to keep pace in the division. And they don't seem like they're going to do much to address it. They feel like they're a team with nowhere to go."

This is the crux of all the folks who have a problem with Angelos and the FO. Angelos is wasting our time and not re-investing in the team. I don't understand why he doesn't "get" it - if he spends money - he will make more money, lots more.

We're doomed in 2014.

Book it.

MSK

[BradyBunch]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/137008-New-Summary-of-Os-Nats-MASN-TV-Rights/page3?highlight=nats+masn

You might want to acquaint yourself with the links and discussions in this thread regarding MASN before you start saying what is "typical" of fans. PA is clearing near $40M on MASN based on the $ the Lerners received per the WaPo in that link on p3.

MASN at 100%, if the pay out is $8 million for the 15% is $53 million. But that payout went to Lerner, which means the co-Owners of the O's get a payout too. That means 24% of that $53M goes to Clancy estate, 5% to Geppi. So that's $12.7M to Clancy, and $2.5M to Geppi.

So that $53M is actually $29.8M that PA gets. But when Clancy died, MASN had $29M in cash on hand.

So $30M for the Os, $40M from MASN, $25M more $ from the Os based on National TV deal with little incremental payroll for the Os - that about $95M in round numbers. These numbers get to be so big, and are hinted at in so many articles and are in line with what is going on in other franchises that it increasingly is difficult to explain it any way other than PA making humongous profits on the Os.

That $29.8M isn't for the O's, it's for PA. That's pre-tax profit. Once that money leaves MASN (paid out) it's taxable as personal income which is probably why MASN sat with $29 million in cash on hand last year. If PA took that money and reinvested in the O's, the total reinvestment would only be $14-$18M range.

O's payroll in 2012 was $102m, that's for the players just playing MLB, that doesn't include farm players.

O's operating revenue was around $206m (according to Forbes).

O's operating income was $30.1m (that's before taxes and interest).

After taxes you are look at $15-20m. Again, it maybe paid out to the 3 owners. Of which PA would only get 71% of it. Not all of it. Or it could be sitting on the books as cash or paying down the debt the O's have. We don't know.. But there is no way PA is getting rich off it as that money is taxable as income once it leaves the O's books.

[BradyBunch]

Very little knowledge huh? Guesses?

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html

Not quite.

Umm, yes very little knowledge. Bloomberg doesn't get access to the MLB numbers which are the official numbers.

[BradyBunch]

Poor Angelos isn't a billionaire boohooooo....

Out of people to sue?

Cell phone brain rumors run driy?

I am sure his close family members are quite wealthy: John, etc.

Tax benefits of spreading around the wealth ...

Let's not fool ourselves here..he has plenty of dough.

I don't disagree.. just saying he's not a billionaire everybody says he is.

[Ommaculate]

I don't disagree.. just saying he's not a billionaire everybody says he is.

Really? Forbes doesn't agree. Angelos is one of the 8 billionaire owners in MLB.

Similarly, Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos had $1.2 billion as of the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans last September, but we estimate his investments outside the team fell at least 30% during the recent market turmoil. That drop kept him off our list of the World’s Billionaires in March despite the Orioles’ value staying flat at $250 million this year. Angelos’ stake in the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN), which broadcasts Orioles and Washington Nationals games, adds millions more to his fortune.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/22/baseball-billionaires-baseball-values-09-business-billionaires-wealth.html

[BradyBunch]

Really? Forbes doesn't agree. Angelos is one of the 8 billionaire owners in MLB.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/22/baseball-billionaires-baseball-values-09-business-billionaires-wealth.html

Read the article.. you will find these words: Similarly, Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos had $1.2 billion as of the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans last September, but we estimate his investments outside the team fell at least 30% during the recent market turmoil. That drop kept him off our list of the World’s Billionaires

[ChaosLex]

They'd spent two years rebuilding an era of good vibes and repairing much of the damage of the lost decade that preceded it. But the vibes emanating from the Orioles' offseason so far have been anything but euphoric. The dumping of Johnson sent shock waves through their organization. Their free-agent targets have been mostly low-budget. And their biggest offseason acquisition so far has been a reliever (Ryan Webb) who got nontendered by the Marlins.

"They look like a team that's caught in between," said one exec. "They act like they don't have any money, although I'm not sure why. They're a little short on having enough talent to keep pace in the division. And they don't seem like they're going to do much to address it. They feel like they're a team with nowhere to go."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10127149/mlb-offseason-winners-losers