Per the Sun: "Orioles most inactive team..."

[hoosiers]

MASN at 100%, if the pay out is $8 million for the 15% is $53 million. But that payout went to Lerner, which means the co-Owners of the O's get a payout too. That means 24% of that $53M goes to Clancy estate, 5% to Geppi. So that's $12.7M to Clancy, and $2.5M to Geppi.

So that $53M is actually $29.8M that PA gets. But when Clancy died, MASN had $29M in cash on hand.

That $29.8M isn't for the O's, it's for PA. That's pre-tax profit. Once that money leaves MASN (paid out) it's taxable as personal income which is probably why MASN sat with $29 million in cash on hand last year. If PA took that money and reinvested in the O's, the total reinvestment would only be $14-$18M range.

O's payroll in 2012 was $102m, that's for the players just playing MLB, that doesn't include farm players.

O's operating revenue was around $206m (according to Forbes).

O's operating income was $30.1m (that's before taxes and interest).

After taxes you are look at $15-20m. Again, it maybe paid out to the 3 owners. Of which PA would only get 71% of it. Not all of it. Or it could be sitting on the books as cash or paying down the debt the O's have. We don't know.. But there is no way PA is getting rich off it as that money is taxable as income once it leaves the O's books.

I am using "PA" for Peter Angelos, of course, but I am referring to the owners of the Orioles. The owners of the Orioles (and, subsequently, MASN) are in the process of netting nearly $95M from the Os/MASN if payroll stays in the vicinity of last year.

[SteveA]

USA Today calls us out too:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/12/11/mlb-upstarts-indians-pirates-orioles-must-spend-if-they-want-to-contend/3994729/

and the headline on the article in the print edition labelled us "tightwads".

[Tony-OH]

Third, I will ask you for a third time, do you think the Os are "close"? As a man of the facts, do you believe the team that finished ties for 8/9 out of 15 is "close"?

I think the Orioles ar close to being a competitive team. They have an outstanding core of Davis, Jones, Machado, and Hardy with solid role guys in Markakis and Wieters if they can rebound. In my opinion, if the Orioles can acquire an impact bat for left field, a closer and a solid #2 or #3 type starter, they would be contender. Obviously finding that kind of starter is either going cost money (Garza) or top prospects. I've fine with Flaherty/Weeks/De Jesus/Phelps holding down second base until Schoop is ready, but if they go into spring training with the mess they currently have in LF/DH (two spots that should be easy to find good offensive players) then that's on the budget or Duquette.

[Ommaculate]

Read the article.. you will find these words: Similarly, Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos had $1.2 billion as of the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans last September, but we estimate his investments outside the team fell at least 30% during the recent market turmoil. That drop kept him off our list of the World?s Billionaires

Yeah, I read the article. Poor Angelos only has 900 million now.

Tightwad. If I owned a team I would do whatever it takes. I would spend my own money, like Tony has probably done just to maintain this site. It's shameful what Angelos is doing.

[Tony-OH]

Not really eager to see this thread degenerate into an AM-DD beatdown .... while I agree that DD deserves kudos for bringing MM to the majors for the 2012 pennant run, let's remember that MM was drafted during AM's time in Bmore. This awesome 6 WAR asset was in the organization prior to DD's arrival.

And you can thank Joe Jordan for that, not Andy MacPhail since he had nothing to do with Machado's selection.

[Ommaculate]

I bet when Angelos takes a hot woman out on a date, he makes her split the tab 50/50.

[utvolzac]

If there was a conversation between PA and Dan shortly after last season where PA said to Dan something to effect of:

PA: Dan, I need you to cut payroll next year, and not commit to any more contracts after 2015.

DD: why?

PA: I need to decrease the debits on the accounting sheets to prepare for the sale of the team.

Would you be happy or sad?

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this team is trying to minimize payroll in advance of 2016:

Wieters and Davis have not been approached regarding extensions.

Webb was signed to a 2-year deal.

The team won't go to three years for Balfour.

I don't its true, but it is a possible hypothesis given what we are seeing.

I'd be okay with gutting the entire roster and not winning a single game next season as long as it meant Angelos was selling the team.

Small price to pay to get out of this ownership nightmare.

[BradyBunch]

I am using "PA" for Peter Angelos, of course, but I am referring to the owners of the Orioles. The owners of the Orioles (and, subsequently, MASN) are in the process of netting nearly $95M from the Os/MASN if payroll stays in the vicinity of last year.

MASN's profits are dolled out as per the agreement. Nothing you can do about that. Nat's owners will get their money, and the O's owners will get theirs. What they do after that is up to them.. but whatever is dolled out is only brought back by half due to taxes.

They aren't netting $95M, this year or next year. That would require another $75m in revenue from the O's specifically. No way the O's bring in $300m plus in operating revenue. It's not possible, even if they sold out every game and had a 20% increase in food sales.

Now I don't know (and neither do you) what the Owners agreement for the O's is. They probably choose to pay out because the O's had 4 owners. Two of which was an Ex-Wife and Geppi. $95M after taxes is closer to $50M and since PA gets only 71% of that. It's more like $35.5M that can be used as he can't force other owners to not take the profits.

O's still have to go through Arbitration. We are looking at adding $$$$ in cost over last year in those cases. So the O's payroll for 2014 is already projected at $75m for 13 players. Still have to pay 27 other guys.

[BradyBunch]

Yeah, I read the article. Poor Angelos only has 900 million now.

Tightwad. If I owned a team I would do whatever it takes. I would spend my own money, like Tony has probably done just to maintain this site. It's shameful what Angelos is doing.

Then go out and spend your own money on a team and see how quickly it runs out. PA bought the O's in bankruptcy. PA spent like a drunken sailor for many years. PA could bankrupt this team again.. do you want that?

[sportsfan8703]

I think the Orioles ar close to being a competitive team. They have an outstanding core of Davis, Jones, Machado, and Hardy with solid role guys in Markakis and Wieters if they can rebound. In my opinion, if the Orioles can acquire an impact bat for left field, a closer and a solid #2 or #3 type starter, they would be contender. Obviously finding that kind of starter is either going cost money (Garza) or top prospects. I've fine with Flaherty/Weeks/De Jesus/Phelps holding down second base until Schoop is ready, but if they go into spring training with the mess they currently have in LF/DH (two spots that should be easy to find good offensive players) then that's on the budget or Duquette.

I think the Orioles are a competitive team. Back to back winning seasons in the AL east is no fluke. But I think the "OWNERS" don't care about playoffs. Does attendance really effect them? The are making bank of the TV deal and a big part of that is the NATS. So next year we could win 75 games and they're going to make a killing. Do they really care if they raise the payroll 20 million to draw maybe a .5 million people? When Montreal folded we all had our Montreal and Minnesota contraction mock drafts but what we didn't realize is that us, the O's fans we're going to lose. PA got a system in place to never reward him to invest in the team and collect millions of profit from tv rights of 2 teams instead of having to worry about gate sales. We are just a business decision to this guy. And the fact that he's not a billionaire makes me question is judgement even that much more.

Selig and Angelos cut a deal and us O's fans are now paying for that. Everyone else has cable deal money and we'e playing with rabbit ears. When we're getting beat out for 2nd and 3rd tier FA's then you gotta question what's really going on.

[SteveO]

Then go out and spend your own money on a team and see how quickly it runs out. PA bought the O's in bankruptcy. PA spent like a drunken sailor for many years. PA could bankrupt this team again.. do you want that?

Really? Yes cause the team he paid 173 million for and is now worth upwards of 700 million plus is on the verge of bankruptcy if they were to sign Garza. Yup that makes sense. Add in the fact that I have no doubt in my mind that Pete being the tightwad he is has managed to cook the books at MASN (a claim the Nats have echoed) in order to minimize what is paid out to the Nats.

In all your business babble defending Scrooge McAngelos you fail to mention the fact the man stands to make upwards of 500 million when he finally sells the team. PA is well within his rights to horde his money and run this team like a business but dont expect the fans to be happy about it.

[NickM21]

We're not even dumpster-diving, we are just picking up trash on the walk home.

[Rene88]

I would like to see if Niekro has anything left, screw teaching, suit up!

Jim Traber, Chito Martinez and Tito Landrum are also intriguing buy low possibilities...

[ChaosLex]

Palmer tried to make a comeback in 1988 or so, right? Let's see if he's still interested.

[Ommaculate]

Then go out and spend your own money on a team and see how quickly it runs out. PA bought the O's in bankruptcy. PA spent like a drunken sailor for many years. PA could bankrupt this team again.. do you want that?

Why do you defend PA so much? You must be his son or something.

We aren't buying it.