Per the Sun: "Orioles most inactive team..."

[BradyBunch]

A business that the state built the stadium. Also financed the interstructure and highway upgrades. The Maryland Stadium Authority also did some of the upgrades to Camden Yards with tax exempt bonds,etc. Camden Yards was a publicly built stadium.

Hold your horses.. The State of Maryland owns Camden Yards (both Stadiums). The teams LEASE the stadiums. So the O's pay fix amount for rent then also pay admission tax. Maryland and Baltimore are required by law to maintain the upkeep of Camden Yards. Much like it was during the time of Memorial Stadium.

Oh wait..I see the problem you have.. O's aren't throwing cash around on players and that's why they aren't winning (so goes the theory).. but the publicly funded Memorial Stadium was okay when there was no Free Agency for most of the years. Wages were massively lower then they are now and there was really only one team in the area.

[CA-ORIOLE]

IMO it's easier to call up a prospect when you aren't in contention than to hand over the reigns at 3B to an unproven rookie in the middle of a playoff run. I don't believe MacPhail would have done the same thing.

Right. AM would have went with a crap FA. Maybe Tejada 3.

[hoosiers]

IMO it's easier to call up a prospect when you aren't in contention than to hand over the reigns at 3B to an unproven rookie in the middle of a playoff run. I don't believe MacPhail would have done the same thing.

Not really eager to see this thread degenerate into an AM-DD beatdown .... while I agree that DD deserves kudos for bringing MM to the majors for the 2012 pennant run, let's remember that MM was drafted during AM's time in Bmore. This awesome 6 WAR asset was in the organization prior to DD's arrival.

[Austin]

Not really eager to see this thread degenerate into an AM-DD beatdown .... while I agree that DD deserves kudos for bringing MM to the majors for the 2012 pennant run, let's remember that MM was drafted during AM's time in Bmore. This awesome 6 WAR asset was in the organization prior to DD's arrival.

No argument from me. I think MacPhail and Duquette both deserve credit.

[Singleton]

You have no idea that he's flirting with signing Nelson Cruz. Most of those reports were by people outside the organization and disputed by Roch and Britt. Hardy and MW have very little value and just create more holes. If you wanna say bust it up and deal off Davis and some others and accept a few more years of losing. ...then awesome, but don't pretend there are easy solutions that DD is just missing that will fix our situation for now and the future.

C'mon. Lets have a discussion where we just make our points and don't exaggerate the others I just want the GM to have a plan to either win now or win in the future. Im not sure of "the plan" right now will accomplish either. Ironically, while lots of people criticized the move, I was one of the posters who liked trading JJ. That made sense to me. We have an $80 mil budget or so. We want to compete next year so we can't allocate that much to a closer. We're going to take a risk that we can find one on the cheap and spend the $ elsewhere.

We could have traded for Fister or signed Kazmir or Hudson (yes 2 year committments) or signed C. Hart). These are short term moves that aren't that expensive. Not only didn't we make them but there weren't reports that suggested we were seriously considering them.

So what's the plan?

And now we're going after Balfour? (Since its confirmed locally is it ok for me to reference?) I don't really get that move. I mean -- he might be better than JJ or might not but the $ are mostly the same so again -- we don't have the money to compete this year and now we're locking ourselves into an expensive closer for this year (less money to spend elsewhere) and in the future. Doesn't make sense to me. I mean if DD is good at finding diamonds in the rough, finding a closer is one of the best places to get that diamond. TB has done it for years.

Again, with the moves made so far, we're not real contenders in '14 to me and we're certainly not better off in '15 -- I guess we're the same except some of our best players are a year older and more expensive. I'll say it again, if we don't have the goods to win this year, lets put ourselves in better position next year. I didn't say it was easy but lots of teams make these moves. Standing pat is not the answer.

[Rene88]

Credit for what? We made the playoffs once. One single time. Uno.

We all know that was Buck and some luck.

Now when we have to step up we don't even. Other trying and trade away assets...

Sorry but this organization is beyond dysfunctional, it is disappointing and depressing.

[BradyBunch]

This team is run like they don't have any TV money at all. NO OTHER TEAM can claim they pocket so much % of revenue. Not even the Yankees!

O's TV revenue from MASN is $40 million. Ownership of MASN declines by 1% per year for the next 15 years. So in 15 years the O's will own 67% of MASN instead of the 82% it currently owns. But again, PA owns MASN, if the O's are sold tomorrow, PA can keep MASN out of the deal.

Orioles and Nats TV revenue is roughly mid level in the world of baseball tv deals.

Then you have the TV deal issue out there. Nats want more money. That could force PA to sell MASN to Fox or NBC or whoever. Until then MASN isn't a money maker you and others think it is. Last guess at it's operating revenue was under $200 million. Subtract $40 each for the O's and Nats and you are looking at $120 million. Then you gotta account for production, travel, on-air talent, leasing costs from ESPN and so on.. that $120 million dwindles pretty quickly.

Btw, Yankees just got a $300 million pay out for YES Network and get yearly dividends on top of tv deal. Then will get another $200 million in two years.

[brooksfrankjim]

This is for all the people who think PA has given DD enough $$$ to compete. Look at all of the post season appearances the Yankees and Red Sox have made the past 16 years compared to the Orioles, Rays, and Jays. Is it possible to compete with a much lower payroll? Yes, but to make the post-season on a low payroll virtually every break has to fall to the good.

Angelos pitch to O's fans when MASN was created and he was granted the Vast majority of the Nationals TV rights was that this deal would enable the Orioles to REGULARLY compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. Years ago when this happened he said it took an annual payroll of at least $110m to compete and MASN would make this happen. Many year and profits later, the Yankees and Red Sox have $180m+ payrolls and the Orioles seem to hold the cap at $100m.

Angelos is a TOTAL fraud as an owner. He has earned his poor legacy because the team has been a poor team nearly every year he has owned the team. We now have a team that is close. 178 wins the past 2 years. This team needs additional players to have a legit slot at winning it all. Unfortunately, there is NO evidence that Angelos will make the necessary expenditures to MAXIMIZE our competitive position.

I don't begrudge the old SOB the right to make a profit, and I believe O's fans would pay more for tickets IF he spent more to win. But that isn't his approach. Let's go cheap and try to find that needle in the haystack.

Tony and other are absolutely correct when they say there is NOTHING to suggest that Angelos cares at all about winning. There is still plenty of time this offseason, but people suggesting this year will be different have no facts to support that opinion. On the other hand, all of us who criticize PA have a 20 year poor record of performance to support our view.

[hoosiers]

O's TV revenue from MASN is $40 million. Ownership of MASN declines by 1% per year for the next 15 years. So in 15 years the O's will own 67% of MASN instead of the 82% it currently owns. But again, PA owns MASN, if the O's are sold tomorrow, PA can keep MASN out of the deal.

Orioles and Nats TV revenue is roughly mid level in the world of baseball tv deals.

Then you have the TV deal issue out there. Nats want more money. That could force PA to sell MASN to Fox or NBC or whoever. Until then MASN isn't a money maker you and others think it is. Last guess at it's operating revenue was under $200 million. Subtract $40 each for the O's and Nats and you are looking at $120 million. Then you gotta account for production, travel, on-air talent, leasing costs from ESPN and so on.. that $120 million dwindles pretty quickly.

Btw, Yankees just got a $300 million pay out for YES Network and get yearly dividends on top of tv deal. Then will get another $200 million in two years.

We have an owner with a large majority ownership of the TV rights to TWO major league franchises. Think about that. That's a lot of $ - so much that a major financial publication valued the MASN ownership at near $500M. The Os and MASN are worth nearly $1B per that publication. Our owner has little to worry about regarding the value of his investments (near $1B), relative to costs ($173M for the Os, perhaps $75M - risk free for MASN) or the annual free cash flow generated by the assets (est of $30M for the Os, about $40M for MASN, plus another $27M for the new TV rights deal - a large chunk of which appears will end up in our owner's pockets if not put into the team in 2014) - plus revenue from season ticket holders has been increasing for several years.

There is little evidence left that would suggest anything other than PA making an enormous amount of $ on the Os as an investment or in annual cash flow - more likely both. It is PA's right to do this, of course, he owns the team. If he were owning the team as a matter of civic pride - to be a popular, well-liked billionaire, one would expect a larger payment to enable the team to compete better. That is clearly not the case. I once held out hope that PA would invest heavily into the team - especially the minor leagues (and he did once) - but that point has passed. As a baseball billionaire owner, PA is on his way to being thrown in with the Carl Pohldads.

[BradyBunch]

This is for all the people who think PA has given DD enough $$$ to compete. Look at all of the post season appearances the Yankees and Red Sox have made the past 16 years compared to the Orioles, Rays, and Jays. Is it possible to compete with a much lower payroll? Yes, but to make the post-season on a low payroll virtually every break has to fall to the good.

Angelos pitch to O's fans when MASN was created and he was granted the Vast majority of the Nationals TV rights was that this deal would enable the Orioles to REGULARLY compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. Years ago when this happened he said it took an annual payroll of at least $110m to compete and MASN would make this happen. Many year and profits later, the Yankees and Red Sox have $180m+ payrolls and the Orioles seem to hold the cap at $100m.

Angelos is a TOTAL fraud as an owner. He has earned his poor legacy because the team has been a poor team nearly every year he has owned the team. We now have a team that is close. 178 wins the past 2 years. This team needs additional players to have a legit slot at winning it all. Unfortunately, there is NO evidence that Angelos will make the necessary expenditures to MAXIMIZE our competitive position.

I don't begrudge the old SOB the right to make a profit, and I believe O's fans would pay more for tickets IF he spent more to win. But that isn't his approach. Let's go cheap and try to find that needle in the haystack.

Tony and other are absolutely correct when they say there is NOTHING to suggest that Angelos cares at all about winning. There is still plenty of time this offseason, but people suggesting this year will be different have no facts to support that opinion. On the other hand, all of us who criticize PA have a 20 year poor record of performance to support our view.

How about this reality... no one is considering..

O's are a mid market team. O's don't have a sweet heart of a tv deal. O's were WARNED by MLB over it's debt along with 8 other teams two years ago. So we know the O's have debt and currently the limiting of the budget is to get rid of that debt. That the O's aren't profitable and it's MASN keeping the O's afloat and that's why there is no money around.

The biggest of them all...

Peter Angelos is not super rich in terms of franchise owners. He's not a billionaire. Most of his net worth is rolled up into the O's and MASN so there are no other revenue streams out there. PA is up in age and Maryland screws you on taxes on your estate.. ask the Jack Kent Cooke's family.

The reality is the O's and PA might be getting ready for a future sale. Probably, as mentioned earlier in this topic, in the next two years.

[Austin]

Credit for what? We made the playoffs once. One single time. Uno.

Call me crazy but 93 wins and a playoff berth after 14 straight losing seasons is a pretty big accomplishment. So are back to back winning seasons.

We all know that was Buck and some luck.

Agree that there was a lot of luck but I give credit to DD and AM in addition to Buck. Buck didn't build the team.

Sorry but this organization is beyond dysfunctional, it is disappointing and depressing.

I also somewhat agree with this though I place the blame with Angelos rather than the front office.

[scOtt]

But he did negotiate MASN and the payout for allowing the Nationals to DC.

All part of his evil plan. Exxxxxxxxcellllent!

[BillySmith]

Also, why I checked out. You can't request that we discuss anything other than how much Angelos is awful / how we aren't spending enough without being labeled an apologist. It is so tiring. I posted a long, detailed analysis of Matusz a week ago. It got virtually no response. Anyway, no big deal. I guess folks enjoy this sort of discussion.

I can assure you that post was well received here. Please keep that coming when you have the time. Are you going to Spring Training again?

[WEAVERMAN]

I don't get why they're haggling with Balfour over this third year. Just give it to him and move on. It's painfully clear that if the O's don't then someone will. Does anyone here actually want to see Hunter in the ninth? Didn't think so.

That's right, give him the third year before someone else does. We don't want to end up with Axford. Get it done DD.

[WEAVERMAN]

Huh, entitled fans? Every professional team is a business, few pocket as much money as the Orioles while the team wallows in mediocrity or worse.

That's right, Orioles fans are "long suffering," not entitled.