Per the Sun: "Orioles most inactive team..."

[Ommaculate]

All through the years people told me "The Orioles will never be good as long as Angelos is the owner". I used to debate them but now I agree 100 percent.

[twinedenter]

What a tired old argument that has been proven false multiple times on here. Duquette brought in 3/5s of the rotation , the left field/leadoff guy, several relievers and brought up Manny Machado during the playoff team of 2012, all moves that MacPhail would have never have done. Did McPahil acquire a lot of the core of the Orioles, yes, but he never was able to be flexible enough or move quickly enough to augment that core. MacPhail also had much bigger chips to trade than Duquette.

I'm not thrilled with Duquette's off season, but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones in order to find a diamond under his budget constraints.

Allow me to retort: After first saying that to me, MacPhail had much more to do with our success that Duquette in 2012.

1) Yep he brought in Gonzales, Chen, and McLouth. All retreads from the garbage pile, with the exception of Chen. I never argued Duquette's ability to judge talent, only acquiring it.

2) "all moves that MacPhail would have never have done"....I am glad to know you have a special insight into Andy MacPhail's mind.

3) "but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones" Tony, you can't really believe that.

One for you:

How many moves have you seen this off-season that, in your opinion, could have helped the O's, that did not seem to have financial constraints attached?

-Sadly, I have seen far to many to even give consideration to your "but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones" comment.

[weams]

What a tired old argument that has been proven false multiple times on here. Duquette brought in 3/5s of the rotation , the left field/leadoff guy, several relievers and brought up Manny Machado during the playoff team of 2012, all moves that MacPhail would have never have done. Did McPahil acquire a lot of the core of the Orioles, yes, but he never was able to be flexible enough or move quickly enough to augment that core. MacPhail also had much bigger chips to trade than Duquette.

I'm not thrilled with Duquette's off season, but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones in order to find a diamond under his budget constraints.

I'm disappointed that he is constrained by this budget. I wish that he had a bit more flexibility. Not a fifty percent increase. I would like a 27% solution though.

[Tony-OH]

DD is forced to dumpster drive to field a team. Something he proven very adept at doing.

Is he dumpster driving because he is a tightwad? I doubt it, of course, none of us will ever know for sure. But, it stands to reason that the owner sets the payroll where he wants it to be. So if DD is forced to dive in.

DD is doing what he can with the hand that he's been dealt. I admire that even if this off season has been a pretty big failure so far from a fan standpoint.

[centralpaosfan]

All through the years people told me "The Orioles will never be good as long as Angelos is the owner". I used to debate them but now I agree 100 percent.

The sad part is, IMO PA is such a money hungry pig the asking price to buy the O's will be so absurd nobody will attempt to buy the club. Our only hope is his boys are either A. not like him or B. don't want to own the team.

[Austin]

This is the part that does get me. We were all led to believe that when the time was right to strike we would. Well the last offseason and this offseason are the times to strike and it appears there is no budget for it. That is extremely disappointing.

You know, the funny (well, not so funny) thing is that Peter didn't even have to dig into his own pockets to live up to that. He was literally handed $25 million out of thin air and still won't budge.

[Singleton]

DD is forced to dumpster drive to field a team. Something he proven very adept at doing.

Is he dumpster driving because he is a tightwad? I doubt it, of course, none of us will ever know for sure. But, it stands to reason that the owner sets the payroll where he wants it to be. So if DD is forced to dive in.

I'm not defending PA -- not one bit -- but DD is NOT forced to dumpster dive. Our budget is not $40 million. It just happens to be the approach he has taken. I'm also not convinced he's all that adept at doing it -- though I will concede I'm not sure. He spends a small amount on a lot of guys and when one turns up, it's kudos and when the other 9 don't pan out we don't notice. Last year, we got D. Valencia. That was nice. That's not enough for an entire season.

[twinedenter]

Your argument was that a contending team wouldn't have a DH like Wilson Betemit. My argument is that there are a million ways to build a contending team, and there have been contending teams with a DH worse than Wilson Betemit. My point wasn't really about the 2014 Orioles since I don't think they are a playoff caliber team at the moment.

I agree, your right on that.

The problem was there were only a few places we could improve on for 2013 (LF/1B) and DH was one of them. Duquette did nothing to improve the 2013 Orioles. Including leaving Betemit as the primary DH.

[Ommaculate]

The sad part is, IMO PA is such a money hungry pig the asking price to buy the O's will be so absurd nobody will attempt to buy the club. Our only hope is his boys are either A. not like him or B. don't want to own the team.

Like father like son.

[twinedenter]

I'm not defending PA -- not one bit -- but DD is NOT forced to dumpster dive. Our budget is not $40 million. It just happens to be the approach he has taken. I'm also not convinced he's all that adept at doing it -- though I will concede I'm not sure. He spends a small amount on a lot of guys and when one turns up, it's kudos and when the other 9 don't pan out we don't notice. Last year, we got D. Valencia. That was nice. That's not enough for an entire season.

If you pickup 15 rusty treasures, one of them is bound to give you a "small amount" of joy.

[Tony-OH]

Allow me to retort: After first saying that to me, MacPhail had much more to do with our success that Duquette in 2012.

1) Yep he brought in Gonzales, Chen, and McLouth. All retreads from the garbage pile, with the exception of Chen. I never argued Duquette's ability to judge talent, only acquiring it.

2) "all moves that MacPhail would have never have done"....I am glad to know you have a special insight into Andy MacPhail's mind.

3) "but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones" Tony, you can't really believe that.

One for you:

How many moves have you seen this off-season that, in your opinion, could have helped the O's, that did not seem to have financial constraints attached?

-Sadly, I have seen far to many to even give consideration to your "but I feel like he's trying to at least bring in enough stones" comment.

You forgot about Hammel who was a big part of the early success in 2012. Gonzalez was found by Ferreira who Duquette brought in and John Stockstill was actually given a budget to sign guys like Chen and Wada due to Duquette.

I've seen some moves that I would have liked to seen Duquette in on this offseason (Fister, Hart and maybe even Justin Morneau for DH) but I don't know whether he was involved or not or whether we didn't match up. Look, I'm not happy with how this offseason is going but when I hear the GM say he has to re-allocate his $10 mil he saved, it screams that he's trying to tell us he's under some tight restraints. REmember, this is team that offered Teixeira $20 mil per a few years back. Where did that money go? I know, Angelos' pockets and I think he started liking the feeling of that extra cash.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I am well aware of the numbers sir.

My point was that it wouldn't have changed the standings. It was a position that Duquette have built on and improved and didn't. So, my point still stands. We were worse in 2013 then in 2012 and we will be worse in 2014.

Of course there's no real way to tell but I think it stands to reason that if we were getting average-above average production from the DH spot instead of below average production, we probably would have won a few more games.

[Singleton]

DD is doing what he can with the hand that he's been dealt. I admire that even if this off season has been a pretty big failure so far from a fan standpoint.

On this, we just don't agree. We're standing pat. We'll probably end up around .500. And he's flirting with signing N. Cruz and losing our first round pick? That is the worst thing to do if we're in this rut. I agree with you and wish he were given the payroll to improve the team in '14 but that doesn't seem to be the case. But if that is the situation, he can't just sit on his hands. He has to make us better off for '15, '16 and beyond. If this is his situation, he should have aggressively tried to trade Hardy and probably MW.

As is, why will next offseason be different. MW, CD etc will get more expensive. We'll choose between extending an aging Hardy who will soon decline or let him walk. We can't go down this path and accept mediocrity.

[hoosiers]

It doesn't matter what I think to you. You will just turn it around and tell us how great Angelos is and how we should be lucky to have him as our owner. I've long given up having a healthy discussion with you any longer about the Orioles. My thoughts are quite clear in various threads. It is embarrassing that Angelos would barely move the payroll (after being so far under where he should have been for the last six years) especially after getting a big chunk of change of MLB. The Orioles are nothing more than money making opportunity for Angelos. He's made that abundantly clear for those of us willing to look at the fact and not make excuses.

First, Tony, I am sorry that you took two fairly simple questions and decided to make it personal.

Second, I believe there are repeated threads over the last two months where I claim PA can easily take the payroll up (into the $115M range or even as much as $150+M if attendance at OPACY were comfortably over 3.5M). PA is making enormous amounts of $ on this team and it is actually Weams who has defended PA as much as anyone on this board - so not sure why you make something up and take me to task.

Third, I will ask you for a third time, do you think the Os are "close"? As a man of the facts, do you believe the team that finished ties for 8/9 out of 15 is "close"?

[TouchemAll]

Yes. I think that we have.

When I first became an Oriole fan in the early 70's (October of 1971), the Orioles having a winning season from 1971 through about 1984 was almost as sure the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west. I remember when we went 88-74 and came in 2nd place in 1976, and that was considered a "bad" season.

Now, we are only 2 years removed from 14 consecutive seasons between 1998-2011. So yes, our expectations have indeed sunk from what they have previously been historically.

Those were the days my friend we hoped they'd never end!!