Yanks get Tanaka 7y/$155M

[Hank Scorpio]

I found this funny, sorry if it's already been posted:

In his interview with the AP, Hank Steinbrenner bristled at the notion the Yankees were becoming cheap without his father around.

"There has been criticism of myself and my brother the last couple years that, gee, if our dad was still in charge, we'd be spending this and spending that and doing whatever it takes to win," he said, referring to late Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.

"He didn't have revenue sharing, at least for most of his time," Hank Steinbrenner added. "That's what these people in the sports media don't seem to get. If it wasn't for revenue sharing, we'd have a payroll of $300 million a year if we wanted to. So we're doing this despite having to pay all that revenue sharing."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10331816/masahiro-tanaka-new-york-yankees-agree-seven-year-155-million-deal

[SilentJames]

I'm not saying the Yankees won't be improved I'm just saying that they aren't necessarily a juggernaut that we should all fear. They are a mortal team, even if they are healthy they are a contender in a division where easily four of the five teams are legit contenders.

They aren't that far ahead of the pack, if at all. That is still the Sox.

[Flosman]

I think the Os and the Yanks are in similar positions in regards to them competing this season. Both require a lot of things to go their way for it to happen. I unlike probably most do not think the Yanks have a huge advantage in the likelihood of those things happening. Let me explain why I think the way I do.

Let's look at it by position.

Catcher

McCann v Weiters

McCann is expensive older and has only been slightly more valuable than MW. Both have been rode hard and are at risk for breaking down. Matt is a better catcher, McCann has a better bat. With the age difference I think this is a position that it is a push. Which guy has a career year is impossible to know but that is what we are talking about here. There really is not much difference between the two players.

1st

Tex v Davis

This is a clear win for the O 's Davis is in his prime even assuming he falls back some the Yanks would have to have horseshoe up their but to end up better then the O;s a 1B. Tex is old and has not been healthy for the last two seasons. Tex is ten years removed from a season as good as Davis had last year. Sure Tex is capable of being has good has Davis but it is not at all likely. Yanks have to hope against time and rational thought to be better than the O's here.

2b

Crap shoot v Young crap shoot

Does anyone here think Brob is a better bet then Flaherty? Brob could surely find the fountain of youth and post a 3 win season. You would have to assume it would all have to come from his bat. Flaherty is clearly a better fielder what he can bring with the bat is not clear. If RF fails maybe Schoop takes over who knows how that turns out. Brendon Ryan can field but absolutely can't hit and is getting long in the tooth. The bottom line is neither team can look at 2b as a strength. I feel the O's actually have a better chance of being good there because I think RF can field and his bat will progress to the point that it is a positive. But I understand that is a subjective view.

SS

Hardy v Jeter/Nunez

Hardy by miles. Again Jeter could find the fountain of youth for the second time. But Jeter will never be able to field even if he can hit. I think Jeter being healthy actually hurts the Yanks. Who wants to tell Jeter he just is not good enough anymore. This is a position that the Yanks have to have irrational hope to think they can match the O's.

3b

Manny v Somebody not as good as Manny... LOL

Not really much discussion here. Manny by probably 5 wins+.

Outfield

Jones v Ellsbury

Both very good players that it is likely end up being a push if both are healthy. The O's have an advantage in that AJ is generally able to play a lot more. Neither team has a big advantage objectively. Subjectively I think that AJ is due his career year and actually out plays Ellsbury this year.

Nick v Beltran

Beltran is clearly better. This is a spot where we have to have irrational hope. Hope Beltan gets old and Nick stays healthy and finds what he lost a couple of years ago.

Lough et al v Gardner

Gardner is a better player. Glove is a probably similar. Maybe lough makes it close. Maybe Henry burst on the scene and becomes a great player. Maybe Reimold gets healthy and becomes an impact players. Our only advantage is we have a lot of guys that might do something.

Overall the Yanks have a slight advantage in the OF. I think the O's will field better but hit worse. We have a chance of offensively being comparable but things have to go our way.

Bull Pen

Always a crap shoot. The Yanks lose the greatest reliever in history of the game. The O's lose a over achiever that did an fantastic job for us for several years. The O's have had a better BP each of the past two seasons. I personally think who the manager is has a ton to do with how the Pen turns out. We are better here and even if the Yanks sign Balfour that won't change IMO. Buck will cobble together a better pen than the ahole they have managing.

SP

Even with the Tanaka signing the Yanks are not better IMO. Will Tanaka be better than Tillman? maybe but not a given. CC is coming off his worst year basically ever. Pineda is trying to comeback post shoulder injury. Where is the advantage? Basically the SP is a push with them having guys paid better.

Even with the off season activities of the Yanks I don't think they are better than the O's. They honestly ought to be embarrassed that they have enough of a spending advantage to field a playoff team and another team on just the amount they spent over us. I don't care if the Yanks spend like a spoiled 3 YO. We have better people running our team making better choices and I expect that to be proven this season. But to the point, people can say we don't spend enough and we have too many holes but we really don't have a worst situation than the biggest spender. They have to hope that guys find the fountain of youth, we have to hope that guys emerge and become better players. Both teams are hoping on about the same number of roster spots. They just spent more money to do it. Two years ago we were supposed to be in last place, last year we were suppose to be in last place. Until we are I think the current FO deserves to get the credit of making more correct decisions than incorrect decisions. Sure it would be great to buy our way out of every roster situation but that is not the position we are in. Besides I find it rewarding to know we have a team that is smarter than most.

[MrOrange82]

I read league as Major League Baseball, other don't and yes that causes misunderstanding at times.

That doesn't change the fact that as long as Tanaka is even a top 30 pitcher (in MLB) this isn't a "drastic" overpay. Most free agent contracts are overpays by their very nature. TV money is quickly accelerating the AAV of pitcher contracts. I would not be surprised to see Price, Scherzer, Lester and maybe Shields sign deals with a higher AAV in the next two offseasons.

Unless he bombs this will probably fall into the type of moderate overpay that teams commit to all the time on the FA market. Obviously if teams want value then they don't shop in the premiere free agent market.

I'm not going to try and predict the future for you. As of right now, Tanaka's contract is the 18th richest in baseball history. In terms of AAV, it's the 22nd richest contract in history. For starting pitchers, it's the 9th richest contract. In. History.

Tanaka is going to be making the kind of money given to All-Stars and Cy Young winners. Will the guys you mentioned eclipse what Tanaka will be getting paid? Maybe. But even if they do, Tanaka will still hold one of the most expensive contracts ever given out to anyone. If he fails to be one of the best starting pitchers in the league, the game, or even the fantasy league he plays with his friends, his contract will be a drastic overpay. Time will tell whether that turns out to be the case, but the front-end risk associated with his deal (i.e., making so much money in the market right now before he's ever even thrown a MLB pitch) makes it extremely risky, if not foolhardy, IMO.

And I said "the league." I didn't say "the major leagues." I didn't say "MLB." I said "the league." Singular. If I recall correctly, you made the same mistake recently with one of Frobby's recent comments. Why not just say "my bad," and move on?

[Can_of_corn]

I'm not going to try and predict the future for you. As of right now, Tanaka's contract is the 18th richest in baseball history. In terms of AAV, it's the 22nd richest contract in history. For starting pitchers, it's the 9th richest contract. In. History.

Tanaka is going to be making the kind of money given to All-Stars and Cy Young winners. Will the guys you mentioned eclipse what Tanaka will be getting paid? Maybe. But even if they do, Tanaka will still hold one of the most expensive contracts ever given out to anyone. If he fails to be one of the best starting pitchers in the league, the game, or even the fantasy league he plays with his friends, his contract will be a drastic overpay. Time will tell whether that turns out to be the case, but the front-end risk associated with his deal (i.e., making so much money in the market right now before he's ever even thrown a MLB pitch) makes it extremely risky, if not foolhardy, IMO.

And I said "the league." I didn't say "the major leagues." I didn't say "MLB." I said "the league." Singular. If I recall correctly, you made the same mistake recently with one of Frobby's recent comments. Why not just say "my bad," and move on?

I thought I did? The first line that you just quoted?

I am just objecting to the term drastic. I think given the current landscape of player salaries he would have to perform pretty badly to be more then the moderate overpay you see all the time on the FA market. I don't think his contract is worse, given the current market, then what Zito signed (Seven years, $126 million) and I think he will outperform Zito pretty easily.

[OFFNY]

I'm not saying the Yankees won't be improved, I'm just saying that they aren't necessarily a juggernaut that we should all fear. They are a mortal team, even if they are healthy they are a contender in a division where easily four of the five teams are legit contenders.

They aren't that far ahead of the pack, if at all. That is still the Sox.

Most importantly, I believe that the Oriole players and coaching staff have not feared (nor have acted like they have feared) the Yankees since the 2011 season.

Although the Yankees got the better of us in the 2012 A.L.C.S., and in the 2013 season series, they BARELY got the better of us. They beat us 10 games to 9 in 2013, and we split the 2012 season series with them at 9 games apiece before they eliminated us in our playoff series with them, 3 games to 2.

In my rat's ass of an opinion, there was a change in Oriole "attitude" when playing against the Yankees as early as the beginning of the 2012 season. I remember when I went to a couple of Yankee-Oriole games in the Bronx back in late April-early May of that season. Even though we lost the first game 2-1, the stadium had a playoff atmosphere, BOTH on the field AND in the stands. With the Yankees leading by a score of 2-1 in the 8th inning, I remember Nick Markakis getting thrown out at home plate, trying to tie the game. It really felt electric (unlike so many other Oriole-Yankee games played in the Bronx and at O.P.A.C.Y. in the numerous recent seasons before that) when Nick was thrown out, which preserved the Yankees' one-run lead. I also sensed a fight and a spirit in our team that I hadn't seen very often in the numerous previous seasons.

When I went back to the stadium 2 nights later, Jake shut the Yankees down for 8 innings, Wieters and Markakis homered, and we walked away with a 5-0 win, and a 2 games to 1 series victory.

In many of the games that I attended at both Yankee Stadium and Oriole Park before that, I often had a sense that the Orioles were kind of intimidated by the Yankees before a single pitch was thrown.

Regardless of how well we do or don't match up against the Yankees when we play them this upcoming season, I don't think that our players and coaches/manager will be (nor have they been for quite some time) the slightest bit intimidated by them. And to me, that's at least half the battle in itself.

[SilentJames]

I think the Os and the Yanks are in similar positions in regards to them competing this season. Both require a lot of things to go their way for it to happen. I unlike probably most do not think the Yanks have a huge advantage in the likelihood of those things happening. Let me explain why I think the way I do.

Let's look at it by position.

Catcher

McCann v Weiters

McCann is expensive older and has only been slightly more valuable than MW. Both have been rode hard and are at risk for breaking down. Matt is a better catcher, McCann has a better bat. With the age difference I think this is a position that it is a push. Which guy has a career year is impossible to know but that is what we are talking about here. There really is not much difference between the two players.

1st

Tex v Davis

This is a clear win for the O 's Davis is in his prime even assuming he falls back some the Yanks would have to have horseshoe up their but to end up better then the O;s a 1B. Tex is old and has not been healthy for the last two seasons. Tex is ten years removed from a season as good as Davis had last year. Sure Tex is capable of being has good has Davis but it is not at all likely. Yanks have to hope against time and rational thought to be better than the O's here.

2b

Crap shoot v Young crap shoot

Does anyone here think Brob is a better bet then Flaherty? Brob could surely find the fountain of youth and post a 3 win season. You would have to assume it would all have to come from his bat. Flaherty is clearly a better fielder what he can bring with the bat is not clear. If RF fails maybe Schoop takes over who knows how that turns out. Brendon Ryan can field but absolutely can't hit and is getting long in the tooth. The bottom line is neither team can look at 2b as a strength. I feel the O's actually have a better chance of being good there because I think RF can field and his bat will progress to the point that it is a positive. But I understand that is a subjective view.

SS

Hardy v Jeter/Nunez

Hardy by miles. Again Jeter could find the fountain of youth for the second time. But Jeter will never be able to field even if he can hit. I think Jeter being healthy actually hurts the Yanks. Who wants to tell Jeter he just is not good enough anymore. This is a position that the Yanks have to have irrational hope to think they can match the O's.

3b

Manny v Somebody not as good as Manny... LOL

Not really much discussion here. Manny by probably 5 wins+.

Outfield

Jones v Ellsbury

Both very good players that it is likely end up being a push if both are healthy. The O's have an advantage in that AJ is generally able to play a lot more. Neither team has a big advantage objectively. Subjectively I think that AJ is due his career year and actually out plays Ellsbury this year.

Nick v Beltran

Beltran is clearly better. This is a spot where we have to have irrational hope. Hope Beltan gets old and Nick stays healthy and finds what he lost a couple of years ago.

Lough et al v Gardner

Gardner is a better player. Glove is a probably similar. Maybe lough makes it close. Maybe Henry burst on the scene and becomes a great player. Maybe Reimold gets healthy and becomes an impact players. Our only advantage is we have a lot of guys that might do something.

Overall the Yanks have a slight advantage in the OF. I think the O's will field better but hit worse. We have a chance of offensively being comparable but things have to go our way.

Bull Pen

Always a crap shoot. The Yanks lose the greatest reliever in history of the game. The O's lose a over achiever that did an fantastic job for us for several years. The O's have had a better BP each of the past two seasons. I personally think who the manager is has a ton to do with how the Pen turns out. We are better here and even if the Yanks sign Balfour that won't change IMO. Buck will cobble together a better pen than the ahole they have managing.

SP

Even with the Tanaka signing the Yanks are not better IMO. Will Tanaka be better than Tillman? maybe but not a given. CC is coming off his worst year basically ever. Pineda is trying to comeback post shoulder injury. Where is the advantage? Basically the SP is a push with them having guys paid better.

Even with the off season activities of the Yanks I don't think they are better than the O's. They honestly ought to be embarrassed that they have enough of a spending advantage to field a playoff team and another team on just the amount they spent over us. I don't care if the Yanks spend like a spoiled 3 YO. We have better people running our team making better choices and I expect that to be proven this season. But to the point, people can say we don't spend enough and we have too many holes but we really don't have a worst situation than the biggest spender. They have to hope that guys find the fountain of youth, we have to hope that guys emerge and become better players. Both teams are hoping on about the same number of roster spots. They just spent more money to do it. Two years ago we were supposed to be in last place, last year we were suppose to be in last place. Until we are I think the current FO deserves to get the credit of making more correct decisions than incorrect decisions. Sure it would be great to buy our way out of every roster situation but that is not the position we are in. Besides I find it rewarding to know we have a team that is smarter than most.

Agree with everything except the rotation. The Yanks rotation, as of today, is better. A thinner, old CC is still CC. he would be the best pitcher on the Orioles. Kuroda is old as well, but he is still remarkably solid.

Visualized it looks something like this:

CC

Tanaka

Kuroda Tillman

Nova Gausman

SP Chen

Gonzo

Norris

The Yankees top two are clearly an improvement over our top two. Add someone like Arroyo and that makes thins a little more equal. When you look at last year's numbers the Yanks and Orioles sat on opposite ends of the league average (The Yanks right above and the Orioles right below). The Orioles have youth, but they need someone who can eat innings and be a stabilizing force.

[Guest]

Just for you since for the life of me I cannot understand how you are still an O's fan.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/

I love this team. Calling them out doesn't stop me from being a fan.

[SoBo]

Agree with everything except the rotation. The Yanks rotation, as of today, is better. A thinner, old CC is still CC. he would be the best pitcher on the Orioles. Kuroda is old as well, but he is still remarkably solid.

Visualized it looks something like this:

CC

Tanaka

Kuroda Tillman

Nova Gausman

SP Chen

Gonzo

Norris

The Yankees top two are clearly an improvement over our top two. Add someone like Arroyo and that makes thins a little more equal. When you look at last year's numbers the Yanks and Orioles sat on opposite ends of the league average (The Yanks right above and the Orioles right below). The Orioles have youth, but they need someone who can eat innings and be a stabilizing force.

I understand this point of view but CC fell off a cliff last year. Maybe he bounces back but that arm has logged a TON of innings. Kuroda has been extremely consistent but his second half last year was not good. We don't know what Tanaka is going to be. Clearly the Yankees have the name recognition over the O's but its not out of the realm of possibility the O's rotation stacks up. That being said it would be really nice to see Burnett or Arroyo give the O's some innings.

[OsLuvrInKy]

I love this team. Calling them out doesn't stop me from being a fan.

Well more power to ya brother. I am not sure I could remain a fan of something that aggravates me as much as the O's seam to aggravate you. There is a lot to like about the O's right now and over the last 2-3 years.

If you are not sure of what those goods things are I will use a quote from you....

"You figure it out!"

[El Gordo]

If it's true Tanaka's wife wanted to be in LA he'll need most of that 155M for the alimony.:smile11:

[NCRaven]

The Yankees got .229/.292/.397/.690 out of 1B last year. Their catchers hit .213/.289/.298/.587. At shortstop it was . 228/.286/.312/.598. Does anyone really objectively think Tex, McCann, and Jeter can't do better than that? Yes they'll have a big drop at 2B, but the price they paid for that is a big upgrade in the rotation with Tanaka.

To say the Yankees, on paper, aren't better than 2013 is to base that only on wishful thinking. They did what they always do, reload.

Jeter and Texeiera were huge injury and decline risks at 39 and 33 years old. Are they less of an injury and decline risk at 40 and 34? McCann only played in 102 games last year; he'll be 30 years old at catcher, the same age as Mauer's last year at catcher before converting to 1B. Will the toll get easier as McCann gets older? Who replaces A-Rod's production at 3B and and Cano's at 2B? If you say Kelly Johnson and Brian Roberts you deserve to have people laugh in your face.

Jacoby Ellsbury will be 30 and his game is based entirely on speed. He only played in 134 games last year, 74 in 2012, and 18 in 2010 - all injury shortened seasons. Now, he's suddenly going to stay healthy when he reaches his 30's. That contract has bust written all over it. If he performs well, Tanaka may be the only positive move that provides value that the Yankees made this off season.

Davis/1B, Hardy/SS, Machado/3B and Jones/CF could and possibly should all outproduce their Yankee counterparts. 2B is likely to be a push. At 39 years old, Carlos Beltran may not produce more than Markakis coming off his first healty off season in the past 3 years. And, while Wieters is likely to fall short of McCann's 2014 numbers at the plate, he'll be far better behind the plate.

So while the Yankees are probably better than their 2013 Pythagorean prediction of 79 wins. But I'm not sure that they're significantly better than their actual 85 wins.

Where the Orioles fall short is starting pitching. No question. If Sabathia rebounds, Tanaka makes a seamless adjustment to pitching in the US, and Kuroda continues to hide from Father Time, the Yankees have a better rotation, if the O's make no further additions. And starting pitching remains the most important element in baseball (IMO). At least the O's "ifs" related to pitching relate to young players (Gausman, Britton, Matusz) stepping up and not old players (Sabathia, Kuroda) hanging on.

[Morgan423]

22 million a year AAV? Pfffffffft. Pocket change!

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Maybe he's the next Darvish. But some of the innings and pitch counts are ridiculous. He threw 160 pitches in a playoff game and then closed the next game. Seriously? The history of young arms with tons of innings and pitch counts is not good.

Every pitcher before like 1975 says hello.

[El Gordo]

I'd give the MFY an edge in LF and RF. A wash in CF and C, The O's better every where else. I think their bullpens are currently a wash. MFY will get the edge when the sign Balfour. They now have a slight edge in SP with Tanaka, still a lot of question mark, with CC and Koroda getting up in years, Tanaka making the transition to MLB, and Pineda coming off arm problems. Nava should be solid. Phelps?