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Evaluate the Bedard trade

wildcard

By wildcard
in Orioles Talk

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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There is no doubt that Hughes was on the table and then taken off.

Gammons said the other day that hughes, Melky and Marquez were on the table.

Remember, the Twins said they wanted Kennedy as the third player with Hughes and MCab.

I have to agree with you on this. The Twins waited to long on that one IMO and gave Hal time to join with Cashmen in convincing Hank that Santana wasn't worth the price they ere offering. I also think Boston blew it by not offering Ellsbury with Lester. The difference between Ellsbury and Crisp is not worth the difference between Santana and Lester and a virtual dynasty for the next 6 years or more.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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What were they saying?

That things were on hold waiting to see what happened with Bedard and, to a degree, BRob.

They wanted to see what the return was before trading others.

Trust me when I say that I agree with you that it makes no sense but it was still how they were doing things apparently.

Boom Boom Dixon showed us that AM has done many trades in Feb and March. Guys like Mora, Payton, Millar, et al can still be dealt. I am not disputing that.

But PERHAPS(and i can't stress that word strongly enough) we lost out on chances to make moves while kicking our tires with Bedard.

As i have consistently said, if AM is able to get rid of these guys and still shape the team by OD, waiting on bedard will not have mattered one bit. It will have pissed us off but who the hell cares at the end of the day.

But if he doesn't get those moves done and doesn't shape this team better than it is, i think waiting will have had a big reason as to why that happened and to top it all off, i don't believe that waiting allowed us to get a better deal.

I just can't fathom that Seattle would have said no to adding Butler 4-6 weeks ago. AM was clearly holding out for better players and was told no.

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Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

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That things were on hold waiting to see what happened with Bedard and, to a degree, BRob.

They wanted to see what the return was before trading others.

Trust me when I say that I agree with you that it makes no sense but it was still how they were doing things apparently.

Boom Boom Dixon showed us that AM has done many trades in Feb and March. Guys like Mora, Payton, Millar, et al can still be dealt. I am not disputing that.

But PERHAPS(and i can't stress that word strongly enough) we lost out on chances to make moves while kicking our tires with Bedard.

As i have consistently said, if AM is able to get rid of these guys and still shape the team by OD, waiting on bedard will not have mattered one bit. It will have pissed us off but who the hell cares at the end of the day.

But if he doesn't get those moves done and doesn't shape this team better than it is, i think waiting will have had a big reason as to why that happened and to top it all off, i don't believe that waiting allowed us to get a better deal.

I just can't fathom that Seattle would have said no to adding Butler 4-6 weeks ago. AM was clearly holding out for better players and was told no.

You're okay with this return for Bedard, right?

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Shopay Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Shopay

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That things were on hold waiting to see what happened with Bedard and, to a degree, BRob.

They wanted to see what the return was before trading others.

Trust me when I say that I agree with you that it makes no sense but it was still how they were doing things apparently.

Boom Boom Dixon showed us that AM has done many trades in Feb and March. Guys like Mora, Payton, Millar, et al can still be dealt. I am not disputing that.

But PERHAPS(and i can't stress that word strongly enough) we lost out on chances to make moves while kicking our tires with Bedard.

As i have consistently said, if AM is able to get rid of these guys and still shape the team by OD, waiting on bedard will not have mattered one bit. It will have pissed us off but who the hell cares at the end of the day.

But if he doesn't get those moves done and doesn't shape this team better than it is, i think waiting will have had a big reason as to why that happened and to top it all off, i don't believe that waiting allowed us to get a better deal.

I just can't fathom that Seattle would have said no to adding Butler 4-6 weeks ago. AM was clearly holding out for better players and was told no.

I'm not saying I agree with the above bolded language because I don't, but, even if it is true, I can't fault AM for holding out for better players. You never truly know what you could have gotten if you don't push it to the limit. And let me tell you, it's far easier to simply say early in a negotiation, well I've gotten enough, no reason to push this any further, then to hold out for that final best offer. IMO, that is clearly what has made Scott Boras so successful.

WRT to some of our older players, it would be nice to get rid of them now, but unless they are truly blocking someone, I won't be devastated if they aren't moved, as they may actually have more value at the trade dealine.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I'm not saying I agree with the above bolded language because I don't, but, even if it is true, I can't fault AM for holding out for better players. You never truly know what you could have gotten if you don't push it to the limit. And let me tell you, it's far easier to simply say early in a negotiation, well I've gotten enough, no reason to push this any further, then to hold out for that final best offer. IMO, that is clearly what has made Scott Boras so successful.

WRT to some of our older players, it would be nice to get rid of them now, but unless they are truly blocking someone, I won't be devastated if they aren't moved, as they may actually have more value at the trade dealine.

I don't blame him for holding out for a few weeks....This was being discussed at the winter meetings...By Xmas/first of the year, it is time to get moving IMO.

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amateurfan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

amateurfan

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Of coruse you aren't...When in doubt, vaTech gives the Orioles the benefit of the doubt.

I have said repeatedly that if AM is able to make other moves, then waiting didn't matter...At this point, it looks very unlikely that he will be able to consumate another 2-4 trades this offseason.

This isn't true.

The difficult aspect of accepting your argument is that it's based completely on conjecture and pessimism. Your argument depends on these two assumptions:

1. you know what was offered and what other teams want for themselves

2. Andy MacPhail, or PGA, is not capable of pulling off good deals.

If this gets finalized, this will be three good deals. At that point, I will consider AM a success with no reservations.

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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This is a good point. It's not like Bedard will just walk away at the end of 2 years and they will get nothing. They'll either get draft picks, or something better, even if he won't re-sign.

Why is it the Ms are the only team who might get draft picks out of this deal?

We are getting five guys who could yield draft picks when their service time is up!

Instead of this being a plus in the Ms column, I think a decent argument can be made that this could well be a plus for the Os.

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Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

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Yes...Its fine...Not jumping for joy or anything but I think it was a good and fair return....I am very happy with Jones and Tillman.

Sherrill is the wild card to me..What do we have planned for him in the long run?

I like the fact he's cheap and under control for 4 years. Lots of things we can do with that guy...

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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How can we ANYLIZE a trade that 1, is not completed, and 2, we have no true idea of who we are getting...

Seems to me that, in general, that's pretty much what the overwhelming majority of threads are about.

I don't see what's so different about this one, except that WC's opinion is swimming against the tide...

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