What happened to all the high BA guys?

[waroriole]

You think they build Safeco like that if he wasn't a slap hitter?

Hitting the ball hard is just part of the game now. I don't see it changing in the near future.

One swing, one run.

Safeco opened in 1999. Ichiro was a rookie in 2001.

[Can_of_corn]

Safeco opened in 1999. Ichiro was a rookie in 2001.

D'oh.

Well they might have moved the walls in a decade earlier.

[McLovin]

The shift.

Heavy bullpen specialization.

No steroids.

[waroriole]

The shift.

Heavy bullpen specialization.

No steroids.

1. That's a very new phenomenon. This has been going on since Ichiro and Jeter left their primes. Shifts don't work on guys like I've described either.

2. No more prevalent now than in the 90's is it?

3. Not a factor in the 70's and 80's or early 90's. Those guys I listed were not suspected users.

[McLovin]

1. That's a very new phenomenon. This has been going on since Ichiro and Jeter left their primes. Shifts don't work on guys like I've described either.

2. No more prevalent now than in the 90's is it?

3. Not a factor in the 70's and 80's or early 90's. Those guys I listed were not suspected users.

Ok, I guess it's just a coincidence then.

[weams]

Ichiro is still an active player.

Not so much.

[DrungoHazewood]

One of the factors is that increased competition drives down batting averages. Fielders are better, and positioning fielders is much more advanced. This also feeds into the decline of triples, although parks and turf impact that, too. Part of the emphasis on home runs is that they're not impacted by fielding. You could have a team of Usain Bolts with 100% coverage of the entire field, but homers wouldn't change a bit.

Used to be a lot of guys like Luke Appling who'd survive or thrive by dinking Texas League singles over the infield, usually with a fat, heavy bat and no bat speed. Those guys went away a long time ago. Scouts just write off anybody who doesn't whip the bat through the zone.

I used to sometimes hear people (I think my Dad was one of them) who'd half-jokingly say that nobody hit .400 since Ted Williams because ballplayers aren't that good anymore. No... actually, they don't hit .400 anymore because they're a lot better. If you want to see a .400 hitter you have to go to lower-quality leagues.

[backwardsk]

1. That's a very new phenomenon. This has been going on since Ichiro and Jeter left their primes. Shifts don't work on guys like I've described either.

2. No more prevalent now than in the 90's is it?

3. Not a factor in the 70's and 80's or early 90's. Those guys I listed were not suspected users.

Here's a theory that someone smarter than me can prove or disprove. Although bullpen specialization started with LaRussa's A's teams in the late '80s and early '90s, my theory is that the bullpen pitchers are much better than they were back then. My hunch is that teams are much more quicker to convert quality arms to the bullpen than they were before. And the better arms back then spent more time trying/and failing to make it to the rotation. Guys like Crowe and Storen wouldn't start off as middle relievers. I'm sure that it can be proven that today's guys throw much harder. I'd be interested to see a list of the top 25 BAs in the 80s and compare how they hit in innings 6-9 to the guys today to see if there is a dramatic decline in average there.

[Can_of_corn]

Here's a theory that someone smarter than me can prove or disprove. Although bullpen specialization started with LaRussa's A's teams in the late '80s and early '90s, my theory is that the bullpen pitchers are much better than they were back then. My hunch is that teams are much more quicker to convert quality arms to the bullpen than they were before. And the better arms back then spent more time trying/and failing to make it to the rotation. Guys like Crowe and Storen wouldn't start off as middle relievers. I'm sure that it can be proven that today's guys throw much harder. I'd be interested to see a list of the top 25 BAs in the 80s and compare how they hit in innings 6-9 to the guys today to see if there is a dramatic decline in average there.

I think that with smaller bullpens the emphasis was more on guys that could give you multiple innings back then. Now you look for a kid with a fastball and another pitch and have him just go for it for an inning at a time.

[DrungoHazewood]

Here's a theory that someone smarter than me can prove or disprove. Although bullpen specialization started with LaRussa's A's teams in the late '80s and early '90s, my theory is that the bullpen pitchers are much better than they were back then. My hunch is that teams are much more quicker to convert quality arms to the bullpen than they were before. And the better arms back then spent more time trying/and failing to make it to the rotation. Guys like Crowe and Storen wouldn't start off as middle relievers. I'm sure that it can be proven that today's guys throw much harder. I'd be interested to see a list of the top 25 BAs in the 80s and compare how they hit in innings 6-9 to the guys today to see if there is a dramatic decline in average there.

Up until the 1940s and 50s almost all (but not quite) relievers were guys who couldn't cut it as starters. Heavily skewed towards older pitchers, often with arm problems, who just couldn't pitch 9 innings/100-120 pitches anymore. That started to shift with Joe Page and then an increasing number of guys in the 50s. But the tail is really long. I think it's definitely true that a lot more starters are converted to relief on the basis of them being able to throw 97 for an inning, instead of working through trying to get 3-4 MLB pitches consistent. More than 10 or 15 years ago. My feeling is that Britton and Hunter would probably still be starters if they'd come up in the 1980s.