What does Nick's departure say to the other players who we may want to retain?

[CA-ORIOLE]

?

The big question is, was this offer taken off the table at some point? There are rumors it was. If it wasn't then this:

is a bunch of crap, IMO.

These types of comments are almost always crap. That was a given. That you're dismayed by them is surprising. I can understand sugar plums and roses Frobby's outlook about baseball players and Nick, but not you.

[Tony-OH]

If it wasn't all about the money before (and maybe it was), it certainly is now. It's every man for himself next winter when Wieters, Davis, Chen, Norris and O'Day all hit the market. And I'm not holding my breath expecting Manny Machado to sign here long term unless we break the bank to make that happen.

Something ended yesterday. That doesn't mean the Orioles can't continue to be a very good team, but things are going to be different.

I don't think it says anything honestly. Every player is different, but there are few players going to take less money and years to stay with the Orioles no matter who they are. At the end of the day, the Orioles have ponied up to keep players they felt were worth keeping. I expect that to continue.

As Ozzie Newsome always says, you pay for what you think a player will be worth in the future, not for what he's done in the past.

[weams]

The actual sequence is said to have been a firm club offer of 4 years 34 million before free agency. A discussion of four years 40 million after free agency was rejected by the Markakis camp. Then after further thought a firm offer of three years with vesting for a fourth that would have been similar. Then a signing for four 45 in Atlanta. It has been rumored that the Orioles not attaching a pick to Markakis allowed for a real market to develop so that the Oriolea were not forced to resign him at more than they were comfortable with.

[TonySoprano]

Think your being unfair to Nick.

He has roots in Georgia, as I said owns a home in North Atlanta. Its not like the Braves are some scrub organization. I love the O's but we are not the only good organization in baseball.

He has roots in Atlanta, if he was offered an additional year and a AAV that is higher why in gods name are people begrudging him taking that. He did not sign with the Yanks, Jays, Giants or other team. He signed for a team that he has a connection to the area with. Its consistent with that statement

Do you think he would have taken less money to return to his roots? I don't. Of course it was a money decision the minute Atlanta gave him the 4th year.

[weams]

Can you make heads and tails out of your own post. I get the gist but there seem to some missing nouns and verbs.

I will go back and edit it when I can actually type rather than use Siri.

[weams]

I will go back and edit it when I can actually type rather than use Siri.

People really do like this deal for Atlanta for the first two years if that's all therewas as a replacement for Hayward and what he work with actually caught up they think that Nick can replace those numbers for the first two years of this contract.

[weams]

That's what I believe, though I realize that I am speculating. Os mangement has a history of letting free agents walk. Nick's neck wasn't an issue until Os management decided to make it an issue or rather an excuse to take the 4th year off the table and let him go.

From the way I hear it explained, the four-year deal that was offered was a four-year $34 million deal. Discussions of a four and $40 million were had and at the higher average annual value the Orioles chose to offer a three year with a vesting option as their best and last deal.

[Frobby]

?

The big question is, was this offer taken off the table at some point? There are rumors it was. If it wasn't then this:

is a bunch of crap, IMO.

I'm not going to speculate on it. If there was nothing more to this than Nick took the deal that was $1 mm/yr higher, then I agree his actions are inconsistent with what he said this spring. But there seem to have been some other bumps in the road during these negotiations that may have influenced his decision. For example, it may have ticked him off if they originally offered a four year deal, then backed off and went to three, and only went back to four when they realized he had been offered that by the Braves. I don't know that this is what occurred, I'm just giving an example of the type of thing that could have weighed into Nick's decision to leave other than the $1 mm/yr. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Nick's gone, and now DD needs to figure out how he wants to construct his roster and spend his budget without Nick.

[jjnono]

Cruz was a great teammate. There was no shock expressed that he left. The difference. Nick has been here for 8 yeas and Cruz for one. It's not about who was a better player and a better teammate. The shock is that he was here for so long and now he's gone. Everyone expected him back, even the ones who didn't necessarily want him back. If the team wins, it's no big deal. If the team loses and Markakis does well in Atlanta, we'll never hear the end of it.

It is certainly true that whoever or whatever combination of players treads in RF next season will be under a pretty powerful microscope... And rightfully so.

[jjnono]

The actual sequence is said to have been a firm club offer of 4 years 34 million before free agency. A discussion of four years 40 million after free agency was rejected by the Markakis camp. Then after further thought a firm offer of three years with vesting for a fourth that would have been similar. Then a signing for four 45 in Atlanta. It has been rumored that the Orioles not attaching a pick to Markakis allowed for a real market to develop so that the Oriolea were not forced to resign him at more than they were comfortable with.

That makes DD seem like a double-talking, chickensh** coward, if true. But couldn't it also be said that a QO to Nick would have muted the market, and allowed the Os to sign him for what they felt was fair value? One coin, two sides?

[weams]

W

I'm not going to speculate on it. If there was nothing more to this than Nick took the deal that was $1 mm/yr higher, then I agree his actions are inconsistent with what he said this spring. But there seem to have been some other bumps in the road during these negotiations that may have influenced his decision. For example, it may have ticked him off if they originally offered a four year deal, then backed off and went to three, and only went back to four when they realized he had been offered that by the Braves. I don't know that this is what occurred, I'm just giving an example of the type of thing that could have weighed into Nick's decision to leave other than the $1 mm/yr. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Nick's gone, and now DD needs to figure out how he wants to construct his roster and spend his budget without Nick.

And as a professional negotiator I can tell you that hypothetical transactions are talked about on many occasions and that actual offers do have expiration date so I would say that they probably did not take an offer off the table that they just didn't pursue further discussion on the parameters of Nick sides offer. Just beccause a four year offer at an average Annual value of eight million is offered does not mean that one at 11.25 would be.

[Frobby]

I don't agree. As someone else said, it's not like they are replacing Cal Ripken or Willie Mays.

I agree with this. However, if the team slips badly and production in RF turns out to be a big problem, then there will be a lot of second-guessing.

[AdamK]

I think there may be some unintended effects to the chemistry of the team. Seems like the players are dismayed and upset, from some of the things I have read.

They'll manage. The news just broke and they were all asked. They don't know what Nick's "sticking points" were in his negotiations, all they know is he wanted to come back. So it's possible Nick was over overvaluing his own presence, as if the organization needed to pay a premium for continuity's sake. I don't know. Only Nick and the FO know.

The Os players managed to move on when Roberts left. Different guy, but similar departure in a sense.

I fall into the camp that thinks Nick will struggle to put up the numbers he did last year, and those were not the numbers we wanted to pay >$10m per year. And if his performance continues to dip, how can this organization (who has a tight budget compared to the rest of the division) cope with contracts like that?

If you look at Ubaldo, you shake your head at that money but it's not the same situation as Nick's.

I wasn't ga-ga over Nick so I am super okay with this move and think the team will put that money soon into someone. Perhaps Manny next offseason. The rest of the club house will be okay too.

[PaulFolk]

The actual sequence is said to have been a firm club offer of 4 years 34 million before free agency. A discussion of four years 40 million after free agency was rejected by the Markakis camp. Then after further thought a firm offer of three years with vesting for a fourth that would have been similar. Then a signing for four 45 in Atlanta. It has been rumored that the Orioles not attaching a pick to Markakis allowed for a real market to develop so that the Oriolea were not forced to resign him at more than they were comfortable with.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. You're saying the O's didn't offer Markakis a QO because they wanted other teams to outbid them? That's a pretty backwards way to approach it.

Offering Markakis the QO may well have depressed the market enough to assure that the O's got him at the price they were comfortable with.

[Fiver]

Players are going to take the most money over the most years, period. That is, once they get to free agency. I don't particularly understand that mentality, but that is the mentality and always will be.

The ones who really want to stay in one place, get that done before the FA thing ever happens. There just aren't many examples around baseball of someone taking less to stay in a certain city, when they were true free agents. If Davis/Wieters/Chen/Machado et al are to stay Orioles, they will sign extensions prior to reaching FA - or their market will simply not come to bear the way they had hoped, so they fit into the O's budget. None of them will take less to stay here by that point, you can be damn sure of that.

This is baseball in the present day. You are forced to root for the uniform, not the player wearing it, in almost every case. Unless you are a fan of a large market team that can afford to pay a past his prime star (Jeter, etc) just to keep him in the same uniform for his entire career. If Jeter had started in Baltimore, he wouldn't have finished here either, in all likelihood.