The Lineup

[El Gordo]

I'm till waiting to read all those scouting reports that show him projected to be a below average .220 BA, 2B. :rolleyestf:

[BohKnowsBmore]

The minor league data is insufficient to project Schoop. His BB rate was high in the low minors. Had he experienced sufficient, uninterrupted play in the high minors, we may have seen him adjust accordingly. I don't think anyone can project from the data Schoop has supplied exactly what type of major league hitter he will become. He might be the lovechild of Lou Whitaker and Robinson Cano offensively, for all we know. One year in the bigs at 22 years of age does not tell the story of his future. Schoop is playing ahead of the curve -- when it comes to AA, for that matter. Based on last year, though unappealing to some, the average projection ranks him 20th best secondbaseman. I don't think it's justified to claim that, "He will always be a below average secondbaseman," based on the limited data available.

Schoop has always been far behind his league in terms of age. Based on his minors experience, I don't believe it's unreasonable to think that he's a guy who can revisit MLB pitching and easily improve his BB-rate and get it closer to his MiL rate.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm till waiting to read all those scouting reports that show him projected to be a below average .220 BA, 2B. :rolleyestf:

From 2012:

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2012/11/a-rival-scout-talks-about-jonathan-schoop.html

"Defensively, Schoop is going to be really solid no matter where they put him," said a scout from outside the organization. "He doesn't have great foot speed, which is probably why they have him at third base, but he handles everything there. He has plenty of arm. He can handle that or second base. And I've heard he can handle shortstop."

"I think he has a ton of upside. From a batting standpoint, he's very young and raw, but when he's on, he has really good bat speed and really strong hands. The ball explodes off his bat. I saw that, and talked to other scouts who saw it. They're all very interested in what he's doing."

"The signs are there that he's really going to hit," the scout said. "I liked him at Bowie and I think he's going to be an everyday player up there eventually. Probably at third base. I talked to other people and that's the general consensus."

[Frobby]

So, if he improves from last year, you think it's only to the tune of 11 points on his BA? You know he was around .240 most of the year until he fell apart at the end.

EDIT: My mistake, looks like he was around .220 most of the year. Still, if he shows improvement, how do you figure it's only to around .220? I think he'll hit around .240/.290/.400 this year, and continue to improve after that.

While .240 wouldn't shock me, expecting something in the .220 range seems reasonable to me. I think he picks up the power more than the BA.

[El Gordo]

From 2012:

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2012/11/a-rival-scout-talks-about-jonathan-schoop.html

Still waiting to see the scouting reports that say he will be a poor hitter. Obviously these guys don't get it.

[Beef Supreme]

While .240 wouldn't shock me, expecting something in the .220 range seems reasonable to me. I think he picks up the power more than the BA.

At least for this season. 2016 would be the season that I expect him to show improvement with BA. Hopefully the BB rate will rise concurrently. Seeing more ML pitches should help his recognition and his selectivity, as well.

[LA2]

Simply put, Schoop is going to be a below-average second baseman who rots at the end of a lineup.

http://statliners.com/2015/02/22/baltimore-orioles-mistake-second-base/

Article written before the E-Cab signing, scolding the O's for not acquiring someone like Asdrubal Cabrera, Callaspo, etc. Doesn't add anything important to the debate, but just wanted to let the Mayor know he's not alone out there!

[Beef Supreme]

http://statliners.com/2015/02/22/baltimore-orioles-mistake-second-base/

Article written before the E-Cab signing, scolding the O's for not acquiring someone like Asdrubal Cabrera, Callaspo, etc. Doesn't add anything important to the debate, but just wanted to let the Mayor know he's not alone out there!

Moving forward, it is hard to expect him to do much more. Steamer projects his hitting to raise modestly to a .226/.271/.371 line with a 78 wRC+ and says he will be worth 0.9 fWAR in 2015. With some guys in Schoop’s situation you could predict a breakout, but it is hard to do so with a track record at the plate like his. Simply put, Schoop is going to be a below-average second baseman who rots at the end of a lineup.

1. That Steamer projection is for 2015 only.

2. The "Schoop is going to be a "below-average second baseman who rots at the end of a lineup" is predicated solely on "it is hard to expect him to do much more (than he did last year)." In other words, the writer was not only lazy, he failed to provide any substance, choosing instead to make a baseless assertion.

3. That's some high-schoolish writing. And, no, I don't mean that in a good way.

My apologies if the writer is your friend.

[Frobby]

For what it's worth, here is what the different projection systems have for Schoop in 2015:

ZiPS .685

Steamer .639

CAIRO .633

Rotochamp .619

PECOTA .637

Baseball HQ .637

So, they all project Schoop for some improvement in 2015, though only ZiPS projects a jump higher than 41 points.

[LA2]

1. That Steamer projection is for 2015 only.

2. The "Schoop is going to be a "below-average second baseman who rots at the end of a lineup" is predicated solely on "it is hard to expect him to do much more (than he did last year)." In other words, the writer was not only lazy, he failed to provide any substance, choosing instead to make a baseless assertion.

3. That's some high-schoolish writing. And, no, I don't mean that in a good way.

My apologies if the writer is your friend.

I clearly stated, as shown in the very passage you quoted, that I didn't think the article added anything valuable to this thread's debate. I did not say that it showed that "we," i.e. Mayor McCheese and myself, could look for it to support, since I don't even agree with the Mayor and what the article stated. I merely cited it for the reason I gave, in an act of passing sympathy for someone desperately trying to hold a position on his own: that there are others on the planet Earth who agree with the Mayor's opinion. "High-schoolish writing" is posted everyday. I felt no obligation to point out the article's flaws since it was irrelevant to the reason why I posted a link to it. Why, even in jest, you should bring up the idea that I had any type of personal relationship with the writer is itself rather high-schoolish.

[larrytt]

Going back to the lineup, the main thing that worries me going into this season is our leadoff man. Assuming our players mostly stay healthy and play well, I'm fine with the pitching, defense, and the rest of the power-hitting lineup. But where is our Don Buford? When we went to the World Series in 1969, 1970, and 1971, Buford had OBP's of .397, .406, and .413. On the other hand, in 1966 we went to the World Series with Luis Aparicio leading off, with a .311 OBP. In 1979 and 1983 it was Al Bumbry, with OBP of .336 and .328. But I'd sure like to have Buford back. If our first two hitters have OBP of around .350, our lineup is a terror.

[Beef Supreme]

I clearly stated, as shown in the very passage you quoted, that I didn't think the article added anything valuable to this thread's debate. I did not say that it showed that "we," i.e. Mayor McCheese and myself, could look for it to support, since I don't even agree with the Mayor and what the article stated. I merely cited it for the reason I gave, in an act of passing sympathy for someone desperately trying to hold a position on his own: that there are others on the planet Earth who agree with the Mayor's opinion. "High-schoolish writing" is posted everyday. I felt no obligation to point out the article's flaws since it was irrelevant to the reason why I posted a link to it. Why, even in jest, you should bring up the idea that I had any type of personal relationship with the writer is itself rather high-schoolish.

I am sorry; I never meant to insult you. After I read the submission (and thought it stunk), I saw it was a Fan-written article. I was trying not to offend you if, in fact, you knew the person who wrote it. Unwittingly, trying to cover my butt, I offended you. Again, I hope you will accept my apology.

[LA2]

I am sorry; I never meant to insult you. After I read the submission (and thought it stunk), I saw it was a Fan-written article. I was trying not to offend you if, in fact, you knew the person who wrote it. Unwittingly, trying to cover my butt, I offended you. Again, I hope you will accept my apology.

Apology accepted and please accept my own apology for making a rather useless post in the first place and my irate response to yours. Can't wait until the games start and we have better stuff to discuss!