Sun-Times says O's want Cedeno, Gallagher, and 2 more prospects

[MikeAD]

I don't get why both teams can't just agree on Gallagher, Cedeno, Fontenot, and Veal. The Orioles get the 2 pitchers they want, as well as the starting middle infield. And all those guys really have no spot on this Cubs team besides maybe Gallagher. This should be a no brainer for both teams. Can the gm's just give the fans control of this trade?

I really would like that trade.

It would be nice having Fontenot back in orange and black.

[square634]

I don't get why both teams can't just agree on Gallagher, Cedeno, Fontenot, and Veal. The Orioles get the 2 pitchers they want, as well as the starting middle infield. And all those guys really have no spot on this Cubs team besides maybe Gallagher. This should be a no brainer for both teams. Can the gm's just give the fans control of this trade?

Fontenot wasn't worth almost anything when we gave him away, and he isn't worth almost anything now. I'd rather start Bynum at 2B. Switch Fontenot for Patterson and then it's a no-brainer. I don't even think Veal has to be in the deal, I would do it for just Cedeno, Patterson, and Gallagher.

[MikeAD]

Fontenot wasn't worth almost anything when we gave him away, and he isn't worth almost anything now. I'd rather start Bynum at 2B. Switch Fontenot for Patterson and then it's a no-brainer. I don't even think Veal has to be in the deal, I would do it for just Cedeno, Patterson, and Gallagher.

I would really take Cedeno, Gallagher, and Patterson for Roberts. I would try to get Payton in there somehow. If we can't get Veal, then just make it a player to be named later and call it a day.

[DeuceBaseman]

K, Cedeno, Patterson, and Gallagher. See, now we're negotiating. But we still came up with a good trade after a whole 30 seconds. This is easy.

[davearm]

Hahaha. That is funny. People have scouts at a lot of games...

You didn't just have a scout there friend, you had little Hendry at the game. Along with another scout.

It is not like you had some ho-hum scout just paying his dues.

And we have scouts going to your camp to look at the ones in MiL camp to look at, you guessed it, the MiL guys that wouldn't be on the 40 man to complete the trade.

So you can feel how you want, but all the signs are there that both sides are still serious about getting this done.

Jim Hendry was in Florida today? Where did you hear/read this?

[AgentOrange]

Jim Hendry was in Florida today? Where did you hear/read this?

No, Ken Kravec was at the game. The Cubs "special assistant to the general manager". Hence, "little Hendry"

[davearm]

No, Ken Kravec was at the game. The Cubs "special assistant to the general manager". Hence, "little Hendry"

I bet you don't know how many guys hold the title "special assistant to the general manager" with the Cubs.

And FYI, Gary Hughes would be the closest thing Hendry has to a righthand man.

[AgentOrange]

I bet you don't know how many guys hold the title "special assistant to the general manager" with the Cubs.

And FYI, Gary Hughes would be the closest thing Hendry has to a righthand man.

Ok, well to be honest, you had two guys at the field looking at Roberts. The point remains the same.

But thanks for the clarification.

[Number5]

I hope that the bolded part of that statement is not actually the reason that the Orioles don't want Murton. And it's not like Murton is very expensive either. So if the Orioles need to eat Gibby's salary they should do it. Otherwise, this is akin to compounding a mistake with another mistake. With that type of thinking, this team will never compete.

Hey, if PA agrees to this,fine by me. It isn't my money! Gibbons gets over $11M over the next two years. That is a lot to eat. I just don't know that we can realistically expect that to happen.

[MikeAD]

Hey, if PA agrees to this,fine by me. It isn't my money! Gibbons gets over $11M over the next two years. That is a lot to eat. I just don't know that we can realistically expect that to happen.

I've never really understood this whole thinking, but then again its not my money (as you said). If Gibbons sucks a month or so after he is back from his suspension then just let him go, pay him and let him go.

I mean if he stinks then its one of two things:

1. You pay him $11 million to play a few days a week and not do anything for the team.

2. You pay him $11 million to not be anywhere near the team and the player who replaces him puts up better numbers.

I'll take number 2.

[Guest oriofan8]

I've never really understood this whole thinking, but then again its not my money (as you said). If Gibbons sucks a month or so after he is back from his suspension then just let him go, pay him and ket let him go.

I mean if he stinks then its one of two things:

1. You pay him $11 million to play a few days a week and not do anything for the team.

2. You pay him $11 million to not be anywhere near the team and the player who replaces him puts up better numbers.

I'll take number 2.

Absolutely agree...I felt that way last season...you've spent the $$ already anyway. Good post.

[MikeAD]

Absolutely agree...I felt that way last season...you've spent the $$ already anyway. Good post.

Not only that but maybe some other sad team gives him a shot and we get to see him a few ABs a season .

[hoosiers]

This is simply not the truth and the more you say it the more it seems you're intentionally disingenuous. Why do you still insist that the Cubs have no confidence Murton could produce and what exactly is this "expected level" anyway? Signing Soriano--and him then "requiring" left--is far from a lack of confidence in Murton. In fact, even handedness comes into play before expectation.

If Murton is going to produce at an ops of 850, there's not a team in MLB that would fail to get him into the lineup.

As it it, Murton's already burned some service time as well.

I never said he was a bad ballplayer. I've said he's an average one. That may or may not be better than several guys on our roster, but that's not important to me. Murton is not enough of a sure thing to produce offensively that he's worth taking a chance on in the BRob deals we've discussed.

[davearm]

Ok, well to be honest, you had two guys at the field looking at Roberts. The point remains the same.

But thanks for the clarification.

It's not immediately clear what your point is, however what is certain is that Hendry has been prepared to trade for Roberts, sight unseen, since the first week of December in Nashville.

It's not as though the Cubs are playing some wait-and-see game here involving letting their scouts check out Brian Roberts in ST games to make sure he makes the grade. The Cubs never wanted things to drag out this long in the first place.

So your notion that Ken Kravec's whereabouts shed any sort of light on anything at all is pretty farfetched. As was said back in post #251, the Cubs have scouts here and there around Arizona and Florida, looking at any number of teams and players.

[oriole_way]

Player A

level PA OPS age

....A 397 843 20

...A+ 401 849 21

...AA 143 993 21

.MLB 542 799 22

.MLB 710 847 23

Player B

level PA OPS age

....A 546 727 18

...A+ 450 800 19

...AA 262 903 20

.AAA 623 792 21

.AAA 250 973 22

Player C

level PA OPS age

...A+ 504 834 22

...AA 203 930 23

Player D

level PA OPS age

....A 543 715 18

...A+ 315 868 19

...AA 257 826 20

..AAA 416 829 20

..AAA 469 968 21

Player E

level PA OPS age

...A+ 505 799 22

...AA 350 901 23

..MLB 508 809 24

..AAA 172 977 25

..MLB 261 790 25

Player A = Markakis

Player B = Pie

Player C = Reimold

Player D = Jones

Player E = Murton

I didn't list these 5 players to say that they are comparable. I just wanted to briefly post their stats where they could be seen side by side.

It's easy to see why Markakis, Pie and Jones were/are seen as top notch prospects. For the most part, they have each travelled through the minors relatively quickly and improved along the way. Markakis has of course already proven himself in the majors with two solid seasons.

Maybe it is useful to compare Reimold (player c) and Murton (player e). They were both college players. Reimold was drafted in the early 2nd round from Bowling Green. Murton was drafted at pick 32 in the first round from Georgia Tech. They put up very similar OPS stats at A+ and AA at the same age.

However, Reimold will be starting this year at AAA in his age 24 season. Meanwhile, at age 24, Murton essentially skipped AAA (he played 9 games there at age 23) and put up an 809 OPS in the majors.

One year later, through age 25, Murton has already accumulated 929 PA in the majors, posting a cumulative 820 OPS. I think that we would be pretty happy (maybe even ecstatic) if Reimold can accumulate nearly as many MLB PA with a similar OPS over these next two years, his age 24 and 25 seasons. (For reference, Markakis has put up a cumulative 826 OPS over his first two full seasons, over 1252 PA. Granted, he did this at age 22 and 23, instead of 24 and 25 like Murton.)

In sum, I would say that Murton has been a better player than Reimold thus far and will probably have a better major league career than him when all is said and done. Sure, we can point to injuries stalling Reimold to an extent, but hey, that's part of the equation. And while I don't pretend to say that Murton is the offensive player that Markakis is or will be, it is a bit surprising that their career OPS thus far is very similar.

Yet many here seem to regard Murton as an average player, or even a throwaway in any possible Roberts deal. However, I would say that if you said that the Cubs were offering a player that was similar to Nolan Reimold or even better, that we would not dismiss him so easily.

I would also say that many here would agree that the Orioles should target players that are blocked or are buy low candidates. Again, I would say that Murton fulfills these criteria.

I would also say that Murton has shown a pretty good ability to control the strike zone in his brief MLB career (830 AB, 87 BB, 123 K). Considering how the Orioles have lacked hitters that exhibit plate discipline over the years, I think we can appreciate this quality.

He also mashes LHP (another seemingly annual Oriole weakness) to the tune of a .909 OPS while holding his own against RHP (.771 OPS).

Just my opinon.

Disclaimer: Now I have never actually seen him play, so if someone wants to say that he is a butcher in the outfield or that he is slower than their grandma, fine. But all reports that I've read say that he is at least an average fielder with average speed, but that he does have a weak arm.