For What it's worth.....

[HarryReasonable]

It's obvious that no team with positional prospects wants BRob. I think the future value of Gallagher and Veal/ Ceda could be much greater than some castoff position players that can't start for the Indians, even if they were highly rated prospects at one time or another. Those guys might help the team this season look a little better on paper, but we've been down that road before.

I don't get how people think we could have too much pitching. It is one thing in baseball that isn't possible. All of this young pitching could be a lot more valuable this time next season and we will also have learned what we currently have with position players.

Clarence - I swear I am not copying off your posts, but right after I respond to someone's post, I find that you've basically said the same thing in earlier posts.

Are we the only ones who "get it?":)

[Bloopandablast]

Why do we need to take Murton back?

I heard on the radio today that Boston rejected a deal from the Cubs of Murton for Crisp. That now makes 2 so-so CF that their respected clubs have rejected a straight up deal for Murton. The Cubs keep trying to pawn him off to teams because he does not have a place on their roster and no one seems to be interested in biting.

Yet most Cubs fans hold Murton on such a high pedestal that they overvalue him greatly, so it seems.

Is a player worth who is offered for him or who he is traded for? Hypotheically speaking of course......but your answer to this logic should at least be consistent with your logic for a Brian Roberts offer.

[The Rick]

AM wants pitching. What "positional talent" can we get from the Cubs that will be "real solutions" to our needs?

We already have 4 outfielders and nobody is going to take Payton off our hands. Pie is not going to be traded, Murton becomes "another" outfielder/DH o a team that has too many of them. Eric Patterson can hit, but is not "positional talent" by any stretch of the imagination. Mike Fontenot is not a long term answer by any stretch of the imagination, at least as far as we can tell. I hear people saying that Murton can DH then, but we already have Gibbons and Huff and can not be unloaded and will most likely not be cut.

I would agree that we need better positional players in some areas, but our roster is top-heavy with dead wood, so there are only so many players we can take on. I say take the pitching in quantity and see what we can develop to trade for QUALITY solutions at the positions that are weak.

That's the thing though, we don't HAVE to trade Roberts to the Cubs.

I'm with SG. We need to start getting positional talent.

I know BB and Belkast have said trading our pitching surplus is in the plans, but this seems like much more of an unknown quantity as opposed to Roberts value now and the likelihood that it will increase as the year goes on.

With that being said, i'm sure AM has a master plan and it's in the works (much more than just Roberts). I'll trust in him at the end of the day.

[HarryReasonable]

My guess for the deal if it happens.

Roberts and Payton for

Gallagher, Cedeno, Patterson, Veal, and Huseby.

How many more guesses do you want, cuz this one ain't happening.

[Fan4Life]

In another thread there is talk of AA 2b'man Duran as being someone we should target. SG proposed Olson for Duran straight up.... my question is... if we were to acquire Duran, or another 2b'man in a trade, what should we then be looking for in a trade for BRob?

[LookinUp]

That's 5 guys on the 40-man. We would have to DfA 3 guys to do the trade you suggest. Ceda and Veal are not on the 40-man roster.

That's one way to look at it. Or AM could be waiting until Baez and Ray go on the 60-day DL, in which case we'd only have to DFA one person. When is the date for that to occur? Am I the only one who thinks there's a chance that AM is targeting 47.5 hours before that date for this trade?

Just a theory.

[JayGibbons31]

That's one way to look at it. Or AM could be waiting until Baez and Ray go on the 60-day DL, in which case we'd only have to DFA one person. When is the date for that to occur? Am I the only one who thinks there's a chance that AM is targeting 47.5 hours before that date for this trade?

Just a theory.

It can happen now. Once pitchers and catchers report.

[Crazysilver03]

That's one way to look at it. Or AM could be waiting until Baez and Ray go on the 60-day DL, in which case we'd only have to DFA one person. When is the date for that to occur? Am I the only one who thinks there's a chance that AM is targeting 47.5 hours before that date for this trade?

Just a theory.

Players are eligible to be moved to the 60 day DL now. It wont help or hurt the Orioles right now since we arent adding anyone to the roster yet.

Baez, Ray, and Patton can probably all go on the 60 day if we need space.

[HarryReasonable]

Why do we need to take Murton back?

Id be happy with:

Roberts & Payton

for

Gallagher, Veal, Cedeno, EPatt, lower level prospect

I know I sound like a broken record, but why do so many people want EPatt???? The guy is not a proven major league hitter and he absolutely sucks in the field. Maybe someone should start a poll to see if the idea of EPatt as the Orioles second baseman is the right long-term solution. If he's not a long-term solution, then we should pass on him. The only thing I can think of is that no one really wants to see LH in the lineup, strictly because he has no offensive talent. Am I missing something here???????

[Number5]

AM wants pitching. What "positional talent" can we get from the Cubs that will be "real solutions" to our needs?

We already have 4 outfielders and nobody is going to take Payton off our hands. Pie is not going to be traded, Murton becomes "another" outfielder/DH o a team that has too many of them. Eric Patterson can hit, but is not "positional talent" by any stretch of the imagination. Mike Fontenot is not a long term answer by any stretch of the imagination, at least as far as we can tell. I hear people saying that Murton can DH then, but we already have Gibbons and Huff and can not be unloaded and will most likely not be cut.

I would agree that we need better positional players in some areas, but our roster is top-heavy with dead wood, so there are only so many players we can take on. I say take the pitching in quantity and see what we can develop to trade for QUALITY solutions at the positions that are weak.

Payton may well be included in the Roberts trade. I agree with you, though, that Murton is hard to carry. LF is his only position, other than DH. His right-handed bat would be very helpful, though. I know it is a bitter pill to swallow, but it really looks like eating Gibbons salary and letting him go is the best thing for the team, IMO. A 4-man bench of Quiroz, Bynum, Moore, and Murton(?) is not bad at all. Moore and Murton could rotate in at DH with Huff and Millar. If we keep Gibbons, we can't realistically trade for Murton, IMO.

[HarryReasonable]

That's the thing though, we don't HAVE to trade Roberts to the Cubs.

I'm with SG. We need to start getting positional talent.

I know BB and Belkast have said trading our pitching surplus is in the plans, but this seems like much more of an unknown quantity as opposed to Roberts value now and the likelihood that it will increase as the year goes on.

With that being said, i'm sure AM has a master plan and it's in the works (much more than just Roberts). I'll trust in him at the end of the day.

I totally agree with you. Trying to put AM's philosophy of "being better after the trade than before it", I think this makes the most sense.

If we trade Roberts and Payton for Gallagher, Marshall, Murton and Cedeno, we have basically swapped Payton for Murton (which I think is an upgrade)

AND

we have picked up a shortstop and 2 major-league ready starting rotation guys for a 2nd baseman. And then LH moves from SS to 2B. Would I like someone esle at 2B? Of course, but it needs to be a long term solution, not a band aid.

That being said, I really don't care if Gallagher and Marshall are #3 and #5 in the rotation - it just means that they are better than 2 other guys who would have been starting for us otherwise. Call me crazy, but that sounds like an upgrade to me in the starting rotation and allow us to move other arms or let them properly develop by getting innings at AAA. There's nothing wrong with that until they are ready to make the jump to the majors.

How many times did we see the Rob Bell's in the world get knocked around over the last few years and we kept them on the roster because we didn't have anyone ready in the minors that could do better?

[Number5]

Is a player worth who is offered for him or who he is traded for? Hypotheically speaking of course......but your answer to this logic should at least be consistent with your logic for a Brian Roberts offer.

You have it backwards. Teams aren't offering anything for Murton. The Cubs were offering him and other teams said no. No comparison to Roberts.

[laxtonto]

Murton has atleast 1 option left, send him down to AAA to get 500 abs and use him as the backup corner OF and DH a year from now. If not trade him....

I still dont see Murton as a fit for the O's, but if hes the 4th player in the deal so be it.

[Number5]

I totally agree with you. Trying to put AM's philosophy of "being better after the trade than before it", I think this makes the most sense.

If we trade Roberts and Payton for Gallagher, Marshall, Murton and Cedeno, we have basically swapped Payton for Murton (which I think is an upgrade)

AND

we have picked up a shortstop and 2 major-league ready starting rotation guys for a 2nd baseman. And then LH moves from SS to 2B. Would I like someone esle at 2B? Of course, but it needs to be a long term solution, not a band aid.

That being said, I really don't care if Gallagher and Marshall are #3 and #5 in the rotation - it just means that they are better than 2 other guys who would have been starting for us otherwise. Call me crazy, but that sounds like an upgrade to me in the starting rotation and allow us to move other arms or let them properly develop by getting innings at AAA. There's nothing wrong with that until they are ready to make the jump to the majors.

How many times did we see the Rob Bell's in the world get knocked around over the last few years and we kept them on the roster because we didn't have anyone ready in the minors that could do better?

I like Gallagher, but I'm not sure I agree that he is "major-league ready." He has 8 games at AAA under his belt and he got hammered just as badly as Liz did in his brief ML call-up last year. I'm thinking at least a half-season in AAA may be the way to go. Why do you believe he is ready to step in now as a #3 SP?

[Harry Carry]

I think thats why AM wants Marshall he is ready and you coulg put Gallagher in AAA for a few starts then bring him up.AM doesn't like to rush kids and he doesn't have to with Gallegher.I have to admit what Am is doing for the Orioles is going to help you guys contend quicker then people think.