Is it ok to give up on Miguel Gonzalez?

[BohKnowsBmore]

It's funny. I work for a mid-cap company, and we make just over $500M a year (revenue). A quick and dirty Google search has the O's making about $300M a year.

If I saved my company $3.3M in a year - forget employee of the year - they would throw me a parade.

Well, this is more like the company saving $3.3MM by terminating you, not being saved through your work.

[weams]

Well, this is more like the company saving $3.3MM by terminating you, not being saved through your work.

No, it like having him hire an intern. To do your job.

[McLovin]

Well, this is more like the company saving $3.3MM by terminating you, not being saved through your work.

Nope, to weams' point - it's like replacing a CEO salary with an intern - and getting the same performance.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Nope, to weams' point - it's like replacing a CEO salary with an intern - and getting the same performance.

I think I misunderstood you, then. I thought you were saying we should throw gonzo a parade.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glenn__davis]

So, you're willing to write off a YEAR of results and chalk it up to nagging injuries? Well, then you are biased because you like the guy. There is basically zero argument that Gonzo is a better option than Wilson or Gallardo. I am not a Wright fan and haven't been at any point so I won't argue him, but only hindsight can lead anyone to say they think Gonzo was a better option than Jimenez coming into the season. It just wasn't so.

He had an ERA in the low 3's last year, through mid-June, prior to his injury. It was clear he was struggling with nagging injuries after that that, I believe Buck, Roch and others mentioned it multiple times.

Regarding his performance this year, he's kept his team in the game more often than Wright or Jimenez. If you had to win a game, which of the 3 would you rather have pitch for you right now? I know my answer.

The guys who wouldn't have cut Gonzalez post after the good starts. The guys on the other side post after the bad starts.

Yes, this is correct. As usual.

[LookitsPuck]

You have a valid point. But there's another factor that DD might have been taking into consideration - clearing room for younger pitchers to step up.

One of my least favorite things about Buck is that he tends to give his veterans a LOT more leeway than I believe he should. If we'd entered the year with Jiminez, Tillman, Gonzalez, Gallardo and Gausman as the rotation, it's likely that (barring injury) neither Wright nor Wilson would have had an opportunity to step up until one of the veterans had been terrible over a long stretch of games (see: Jiminez, Ubaldo).

It's possible that DD felt that one (or both) of Wright / Wilson were ready to contribute at the major league level and Gonzalez was blocking them. He wouldn't cut Jiminez given his huge contract (and the fact it was his signing), and he wasn't likely to convince Gonzalez to happily accept a demotion to AAA or the pen when other teams would give him a chance as a starter. So cutting him to make room for younger, cheaper players with more long term upside makes some sense.

And Wright has been slightly worse and Wilson slightly better than Gonazalez has been with the White Sox, so from that perspective at least, the move seems defensible.

I'd say that Wright has been quite worse than Gonzo.

Gonzo: 5.17 ERA, 4.35 FIP, 7.1 SO/9, 3.9 BB/9, 10.0 H/9

Wright: 6.12 ERA, 5.51 FIP, 6.4 SO/9, 3.3 BB/9, 10.2 H/9

Even *if* you believe that Duquette wanted to give the young guys a chance...that plan seems really asinine if you consider: Mike Wright was terrible last year, Gallardo's numbers in the spring were abysmal and the team doctors had concerns over him, Ubaldo is Ubaldo, and Tyler Wilson was unproven in the organization. Put that all together and the roster is/was a bag of question marks...so why wouldn't you want to keep a guy like Gonzo (who has options) in the minors ready to roll when the expected happened?

And the expected was one or more of the following:

Gallardo was a disaster...and hurt

Wright was a disaster save for a few starts

Ubaldo is this | | close to being out of baseball

It's really indefensible, IMHO. You could argue you wanted to give the young guys a chance in the rotation and then stash Gonzo in the minors.

[atomic]

I'd say that Wright has been quite worse than Gonzo.

Gonzo: 5.17 ERA, 4.35 FIP, 7.1 SO/9, 3.9 BB/9, 10.0 H/9

Wright: 6.12 ERA, 5.51 FIP, 6.4 SO/9, 3.3 BB/9, 10.2 H/9

Even *if* you believe that Duquette wanted to give the young guys a chance...that plan seems really asinine if you consider: Mike Wright was terrible last year, Gallardo's numbers in the spring were abysmal and the team doctors had concerns over him, Ubaldo is Ubaldo, and Tyler Wilson was unproven in the organization. Put that all together and the roster is/was a bag of question marks...so why wouldn't you want to keep a guy like Gonzo (who has options) in the minors ready to roll when the expected happened?

And the expected was one or more of the following:

Gallardo was a disaster...and hurt

Wright was a disaster save for a few starts

Ubaldo is this | | close to being out of baseball

It's really indefensible, IMHO. You could argue you wanted to give the young guys a chance in the rotation and then stash Gonzo in the minors.

If Gonzo keeps pitching like he has been pitching I see DFA in his future. Then you can get him for the pro-rated league minimum if you want him. Time to move on.

[ChinMusic]

I believe the one real reason Miguel is no longer with is rather simple. It was the money.

There's no way they would have cut him otherwise. He had options. They could have stashed him at Norfolk in hopes he's get stronger or figure things out. They just didn't want to pay him millions of dollars to do so.

[esmd]

Gonzalez is 32 and was a pending FA. His numbers are still bad.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml

I was sorry to see how it worked out, but Jimenez, Tillman, Gausman, and Gallardo were going to be in the rotation. And I'd rather see Wilson and Wright try and deliver on their potential that Gonzo struggle to regain his form. They obviously thought it was going to happen and didn't want to bet $5M on the chance. Hard to say they were wrong.

Obviousy Jimenez blowing up and Gallardo getting hurt left them lacking somewhat, but again, Gonzo has an ERA over 5, so it's not like he was going to make everything all better.

[LookitsPuck]

Gonzalez is 32 and was a pending FA. His numbers are still bad.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml

I was sorry to see how it worked out, but Jimenez, Tillman, Gausman, and Gallardo were going to be in the rotation. And I'd rather see Wilson and Wright try and deliver on their potential that Gonzo struggle to regain his form. They obviously thought it was going to happen and didn't want to bet $5M on the chance. Hard to say they were wrong.

Obviousy Jimenez blowing up and Gallardo getting hurt left them lacking somewhat, but again, Gonzo has an ERA over 5, so it's not like he was going to make everything all better.

I'm saying they were wrong considering his velocity is back and he's only had 2 clunkers in his last few starts. Otherwise he's been better than Gallardo, Ubaldo and Wright.

And now we're stuck w/ Ubaldo back in the rotation again. How is that working out again?

[weams]

Nope, to weams' point - it's like replacing a CEO salary with an intern - and getting the same performance.

Yes. It is.

[bluedog]

I'd say that Wright has been quite worse than Gonzo.

Gonzo: 5.17 ERA, 4.35 FIP, 7.1 SO/9, 3.9 BB/9, 10.0 H/9

Wright: 6.12 ERA, 5.51 FIP, 6.4 SO/9, 3.3 BB/9, 10.2 H/9

Even *if* you believe that Duquette wanted to give the young guys a chance...that plan seems really asinine if you consider: Mike Wright was terrible last year, Gallardo's numbers in the spring were abysmal and the team doctors had concerns over him, Ubaldo is Ubaldo, and Tyler Wilson was unproven in the organization. Put that all together and the roster is/was a bag of question marks...so why wouldn't you want to keep a guy like Gonzo (who has options) in the minors ready to roll when the expected happened?

And the expected was one or more of the following:

Gallardo was a disaster...and hurt

Wright was a disaster save for a few starts

Ubaldo is this | | close to being out of baseball

It's really indefensible, IMHO. You could argue you wanted to give the young guys a chance in the rotation and then stash Gonzo in the minors.

Your position assumes that Gonzo would have accepted a minor league assignment. We really don't know how the conversation between Duquette and Gonzo went. Maybe Dan offered him a choice, reassignment to the minors or unconditional release and a chance to catch on with another club. If I'm Gonzo, going back to the minors is the last thing I want.

These are people we are talking about, not chess pieces. They don't always behave the way we want them to behave. Unless you are a Dan Duqette conspiracy theorist, the logical thing to assume is that Dan made the best decision available for the ballclub given the options that were available to him. We don't know what all the circumstances were - so it's hard to label anything as "indefensible" given that we have an incomplete knowledge of the actual situation.

[MurphDogg]

Your position assumes that Gonzo would have accepted a minor league assignment. We really don't know how the conversation between Duquette and Gonzo went. Maybe Dan offered him a choice, reassignment to the minors or unconditional release and a chance to catch on with another club. If I'm Gonzo, going back to the minors is the last thing I want.

These are people we are talking about, not chess pieces. They don't always behave the way we want them to behave. Unless you are a Dan Duqette conspiracy theorist, the logical thing to assume is that Dan made the best decision available for the ballclub given the options that were available to him. We don't know what all the circumstances were - so it's hard to label anything as "indefensible" given that we have an incomplete knowledge of the actual situation.

There was no issue of accepting a minor league assignment, he had an option. And he would have made $5+ million in AAA if the Orioles had optioned him which is why they didn't (and would have signed him to a minor league deal for less)

[LookitsPuck]

Your position assumes that Gonzo would have accepted a minor league assignment. We really don't know how the conversation between Duquette and Gonzo went. Maybe Dan offered him a choice, reassignment to the minors or unconditional release and a chance to catch on with another club. If I'm Gonzo, going back to the minors is the last thing I want.

These are people we are talking about, not chess pieces. They don't always behave the way we want them to behave. Unless you are a Dan Duqette conspiracy theorist, the logical thing to assume is that Dan made the best decision available for the ballclub given the options that were available to him. We don't know what all the circumstances were - so it's hard to label anything as "indefensible" given that we have an incomplete knowledge of the actual situation.

The logical decision is that Dan Duquette overspent his allowance and had to cut ties w/ a relatively cheap, optionable starting pitching asset. Are you forget about the option? The O's have optioned him in the past. Gonzo has always been a team first kind of guy.

[MurphDogg]

The logical decision is that Dan Duquette overspent his allowance and had to cut ties w/ a relatively cheap, optionable starting pitching asset. Are you forget about the option? The O's have optioned him in the past. Gonzo has always been a team first kind of guy.

You don't have to believe that Duquette overspent his allowance to think he came to the conclusion that the $1.3M was a sunk cost after the spring Gonzo had and there was no use in throwing a good $3.8 million after it. Gonzalez has been the same #5-6 starter he was last year.