The Oriole Model- Three run homeruns and defense is it changing?

[Can_of_corn]

Really? Average? Please. Two straight WS appearances, took last years to 7 and will likely win this years.

The Royals would have run away with the AL East and easily won it. By the All Star break, the Jays would have been so far back they would not have been as aggressive as they were.

They were pretty average last year, 89-73 with an 84 win Pythag.

I know you are not seriously citing the results of a one game playoff, a best of five series and a couple best of seven series as proof of dominance over the 162 game season right?

This season they most certainly did take a substantial step forward.

[SteveO]

They were pretty average last year, 89-73 with an 84 win Pythag.

I know you are not seriously citing the results of a one game playoff, a best of five series and a couple best of seven series as proof of dominance over the 162 game season right?

This season they most certainly did take a substantial step forward.

It was also a team on the upswing. The Royals in the first half last year were pretty average, the team that arrived at the post season was far from average and backed that up this year.

All perspective I guess.

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[Frobby]

The only model there should be is getting good "overall" players. If they do everything well but don't have many walks, no problem. If they play average defense but do everything else well, great. If they have below average power but run well, get on base, and play defense, great. Just get good players.

Good philosophy. I don't think we have to play one way just because we play in a homer-friendly ballpark. There are lots of ways to win and we play half our games on the road. I just want a team that plays well overall, no matter how they do it.

[weams]

The only model there should be is getting good "overall" players. If they do everything well but don't have many walks, no problem. If they play average defense but do everything else well, great. If they have below average power but run well, get on base, and play defense, great. Just get good players.

Good philosophy. I don't think we have to play one way just because we play in a homer-friendly ballpark. There are lots of ways to win and we play half our games on the road. I just want a team that plays well overall, no matter how they do it.

I think a team of flyball pitchers and base stealers would be unfortunate. Even if they were good. Though Mussina was an extreme FB pitcher. So maybe. You really can't walk in the MLB without some power threat though. It's not like the 90's.

[Can_of_corn]

If you could have 9 offensive players with Jose Altuve's offensive profile and all were average or better defensively, you don't think that team will score enough runs to be a championship caliber team. Let's use the 2014 version of Altuve (7 homers) instead of the 2015 (15 homers) version.

You are just goo caught up in the power and ground ball thing. A lot of groundball pitchers stink and still give up home runs. A lot of home run hitters offer nothing else but home runs. With your theory, you'd rather have Chris Carter than Jose Altuve.

Kind of you to agree to use the 135 OPS+ season instead of the 122 OPS+ season.

[Can_of_corn]

Ha. Either one supports my point. I used the one with less home runs because that is the opposite of what Weams is in love with.

I don't care if they swim or build a bridge, as long as they get to the other side of the river.

[Three Run Homer]

The three main structural shifts in MLB over the last decade have been (a) increasing emphasis on defensive ability in allocating playing time, partly due to improvements in defensive measurement; (b) an expanded de facto strike zone, partly due to Questec; © declining use of steroids.

I think (a) and (b) have made it harder to sustain an offense based on high OBP--it's harder to draw walks and it's harder to get hits on balls in play. © has made power more scarce, but (a) has made power even more valuable, because there's only so much defense can do to stop a ball from going over the fence.

On balance, I think that the O's have made a good decision to build their team around players with above average power and above average defensive skills, even at the cost of sacrificing OBP. I think it's a formula that can work, although it can be frustrating to watch sometimes. Adam Jones and Jonathan Schoop are the quintessential modern Orioles.

[weams]

The three main structural shifts in MLB over the last decade have been (a) increasing emphasis on defensive ability in allocating playing time, partly due to improvements in defensive measurement; (b) an expanded de facto strike zone, partly due to Questec; © declining use of steroids.

I think (a) and (b) have made it harder to sustain an offense based on high OBP--it's harder to draw walks and it's harder to get hits on balls in play. © has made power more scarce, but (a) has made power even more valuable, because there's only so much defense can do to stop a ball from going over the fence.

On balance, I think that the O's have made a good decision to build their team around players with above average power and above average defensive skills, even at the cost of sacrificing OBP. I think it's a formula that can work, although it can be frustrating to watch sometimes. Adam Jones and Jonathan Schoop are the quintessential modern Orioles.

Nice write up.

[Can_of_corn]

The three main structural shifts in MLB over the last decade have been (a) increasing emphasis on defensive ability in allocating playing time, partly due to improvements in defensive measurement; (b) an expanded de facto strike zone, partly due to Questec; © declining use of steroids.

I think (a) and (b) have made it harder to sustain an offense based on high OBP--it's harder to draw walks and it's harder to get hits on balls in play. © has made power more scarce, but (a) has made power even more valuable, because there's only so much defense can do to stop a ball from going over the fence.

On balance, I think that the O's have made a good decision to build their team around players with above average power and above average defensive skills, even at the cost of sacrificing OBP. I think it's a formula that can work, although it can be frustrating to watch sometimes. Adam Jones and Jonathan Schoop are the quintessential modern Orioles.

I'd include the improvements in bullpen construction. Maybe throw in something about pitch velocity while I was at it.

[weams]

I'd include the improvements in bullpen construction. Maybe throw in something about pitch velocity while I was at it.

Those are components of modern run suppression for certain. Let me be very clear. I would not trade Adam Jones for Altuve no matter what some number might say about their value.

[JayThomas]

Adam Jones and Jonathan Schoop are the quintessential modern Orioles.

I would not mention these two in the same vein in this regard. Adam is a veteran who is on record as saying he isn't going to change his approach, and fairly consistently swings at lots of balls out of the strike zone. If he would try to change that, he would take his game to another level.

IMHO Schoop made great strides last season in pitch selection. Manny made tremendous improvements, and he clearly went to another level. Schoop missed a good part of the year and hasn't been in the majors as long, but he clearly improved and he is clearly interested in improving in that area. If Schoop and Machado can control the strike zone and not give away strikes on pitches which are balls, they will both be perennial all-starts.

I know it's a cliche that I overuse, but to me the most important attribute of a hitter is the ability to control the strike zone: not swinging at non-strikes, being able to defend against tough pitches in the zone, and being able to drive pitches in your sweet spots in the zone.

[weams]

I would not mention these two in the same vein in this regard. Adam is a veteran who is on record as saying he isn't going to change his approach, and fairly consistently swings at lots of balls out of the strike zone. If he would try to change that, he would take his game to another level.

IMHO Schoop made great strides last season in pitch selection. Manny made tremendous improvements, and he clearly went to another level. Schoop missed a good part of the year and hasn't been in the majors as long, but he clearly improved and he is clearly interested in improving in that area. If Schoop and Machado can control the strike zone and not give away strikes on pitches which are balls, they will both be perennial all-starts.

I know it's a cliche that I overuse, but to me the most important attribute of a hitter is the ability to control the strike zone: not swinging at non-strikes, being able to defend against tough pitches in the zone, and being able to drive pitches in your sweet spots in the zone.

Pretty certain they.

[JLee2027]

Last year they were pretty average. This year they were one of the top two teams.

And without a #1 or even #2 pitcher or a big home run bat. It's a freak.

[csh_83]

Your going to win a World Series win your opponents can't catch and throw the ball all over the place.

[Slappy]

The Orioles model is/was pitching, defense, and 3 run homers.

We didn't have the first this year.