TT: Something to consider when talking about Hyun Soo Kim

[Frobby]

You make valid points, I guess I try and see the bright side of things.

I usually do too. Don't get me wrong, 2015 still beat any of the seasons we had in the 2000's, and 2011, in terms of hanging in the race. So I'm not crying about it. At the same time, I'm past the point where being marginally in the race in August should be considered a good season. I was much more disappointed by last year's team than I was by the 2013 team, and I will be very disappointed if we don't make a much better run of it in 2016. Right now, I'm very aware of the risk that 2016 could be another disappointing season, though I don't think that is the inevitable outcome. There's just a lot of risk that it could turn out that way.

[Redskins Rick]

I usually do too. Don't get me wrong, 2015 still beat any of the seasons we had in the 2000's, and 2011, in terms of hanging in the race. So I'm not crying about it. At the same time, I'm past the point where being marginally in the race in August should be considered a good season. I was much more disappointed by last year's team than I was by the 2013 team, and I will be very disappointed if we don't make a much better run of it in 2016. Right now, I'm very aware of the risk that 2016 could be another disappointing season, though I don't think that is the inevitable outcome. There's just a lot of risk that it could turn out that way.

I think the sour taste from last season, and on the heels of the ALCS visit the year before, and instead of building upon that, things didnt work out.

[OFFNY]

Even when the influx and craziness of the OF, and lack of quality SP, they were still in it, for most of the season.

It was a very mediocre year, and I don't think we should sugar coat that by saying we were in it for most of the year. We spent fully half the season under .500, and that includes almost all of September. To the extent we were in it in August, that's because last year the Wild Card contenders were extremely mediocre. It is not normally the case that 86 wins gets you a wild card spot, and I certainly would not count on 86 wins being enough to win the Wild Card this year. My working assumption is that if you want to make the playoffs, you need to plan on winning 90+. If you get a wild card spot with less than that, consider yourself lucky, but don't count on that in advance.

There's no question that both our outfield and our starting pitching are huge question marks, and they will have to outperform expectations for us to contend in 2016. Kim could be anything from a Markakis/Aoki type player to someone who is not major league quality. Where he falls on that spectrum will be pretty important to the Orioles' chances of success.

You make valid points, I guess I try and see the bright side of things.

I usually do too. Don't get me wrong, 2015 still beat any of the seasons we had in the 2000's, and 2011, in terms of hanging in the race. So I'm not crying about it. At the same time, I'm past the point where being marginally in the race in August should be considered a good season. I was much more disappointed by last year's team than I was by the 2013 team, and I will be very disappointed if we don't make a much better run of it in 2016. Right now, I'm very aware of the risk that 2016 could be another disappointing season, though I don't think that is the inevitable outcome. There's just a lot of risk that it could turn out that way.

I think the sour taste from last season, and on the heels of the ALCS visit the year before, and instead of building upon that, things didnt work out.

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

[DrungoHazewood]

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

There's good and bad there. Fans have a right to expect a well run organization that can compete most years. But sports is a zero-sum game, and if all teams were well run (and today we're a lot closer to that than at any point in the past) you will have down years, and someone has to not only finish at .500, but below, too. The O's are a mid-market team in a very competitive division. You can't expect 90+ wins every year. You don't celebrate the so-so years, but it's not the end times, either.

[terps19]

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

No kidding. I remember the yea when Buck first came to town and we beat the Yankees and RedSox a few times, and he said that it was nice giving it to the guys who had the bigger payrolls. That I considered a morale victory. Now I only count victories as Wins and Losses total at the end of the season and making the playoffs.

[OFFNY]

I think the sour taste from last season, and on the heels of the ALCS visit the year before, and instead of building upon that, things didnt work out.

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

There's good and bad there. Fans have a right to expect a well run organization that can compete most years. But sports is a zero-sum game, and if all teams were well run (and today we're a lot closer to that than at any point in the past) you will have down years, and someone has to not only finish at .500, but below, too. The O's are a mid-market team in a very competitive division. You can't expect 90+ wins every year. You don't celebrate the so-so years, but it's not the end times, either.

I agree completely, as I think you remember when we both posted about that in this thread:

From an organization that had zero winning seasons in the 14 years prior to his arrival. I know it's popular to talk about accountability and not accepting failure and expecting excellence and this stuff, but sports is a zero-sum game. But we're fans who have little or no influence over how the team is run, so us holding Duquette or Angelos accountable is a fiction, it's a conceit. Also, in every year the wins and losses in a league have to equal each other. Half the teams, give or take, are going to have a losing record each and every year. But fans always expect not only wins, but wins the right way that set up more wins in the future.

If you'd asked the Hangout in 2008 what they thought of a future that played out as 2012-2015 did I'd guess 30% of the board would have donated a kidney to science to get to that reality. Now that we're actually there it's a firing offense.

Look, I'm not thrilled about everything, and occasionally confused and perplexed by decisions. But I try to not let pursuit of the ideal stand in the way of enjoying the pretty good. I saw 1985-88 and 1998-2011, I know what bad baseball from a lost organization looks like. It ain't four winning seasons in four years.

I've always wondered about that when I hear/have heard fans make statements such as, "Losing is not acceptable for this team/franchise. We fans demand a winner here!"

Well, if losing is not acceptable HERE, then what team/franchise's fans SHOULD accept losing?

Until MLB, the NFL, the NBA, and the NHL find a touring Washington Generals team (and count the wins over the Generals teams in the league standings) for their respective leagues, then major professional sports (as you stated) will indeed continue to be a zero sum game, and losing seasons will have to occur somewhere for some teams and their fan bases.

[Frobby]

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

That's because after 14 straight losing seasons, the bar couldn't possibly have been any lower.

I'm not expecting to see any more Orioles dynasties. The economic advantage held by the Yankees and Red Sox dictate that it will be very difficult for the Orioles ever to be a perennial playoff team the way we were in the 1966-73 period. But if they are run intelligently, they can be in the race most years, and use the ones when they aren't to retool.

[DrungoHazewood]

That's because after 14 straight losing seasons, the bar couldn't possibly have been any lower.

It could always be lower! You could be a Baltimore Colts fan.

[OFFNY]

I like the fact that an 81-81 season has left a sour taste in Oriole fans' mouths.

The bar has unquestionably been raised.

That's because after 14 straight losing seasons, the bar couldn't possibly have been any lower.

I'm not expecting to see any more Orioles dynasties. The economic advantage held by the Yankees and Red Sox dictate that it will be very difficult for the Orioles ever to be a perennial playoff team the way we were in the 1966-73 period. But if they are run intelligently, they can be in the race most years, and use the ones when they aren't to retool.

The bar could not have been lower, but it can't get that much higher than it is now, either.

A sour taste from a .500 season is a relatively high bar. In fact, there was even a certain amount of discontent and disappointment among Oriole fans after the 85-77 season in 2013.

It (the bar) is not as high as it was when the Orioles went 88-74 and came in a distant 2nd place to the Yankees in 1976 was considered a "bad" season, but it's about as close to being there without actually equaling it as it could.

[weams]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hyun Soo Kim's BP today in Sarasota, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FL?src=hash">#FL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Orioles?src=hash">#Orioles</a> <a href="https://t.co/mveBMc3ZZw">pic.twitter.com/mveBMc3ZZw</a></p>— Joseph Kim (@blackwings2011) <a href="

">February 25, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[weams]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Adam Jones on Hyun Soo Kim: "Over there, he’s the man. Here he doesn’t have to be the man. We have some guys like that." <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/orioles?src=hash">#orioles</a></p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">February 24, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Redskins Rick]

It could always be lower! You could be a Baltimore Colts fan.

Or even lower than that and an Indy Colt fan!

[Redskins Rick]

Hyun Soo Kim's BP today in Sarasota,

#FL

#Orioles

pic.twitter.com/mveBMc3ZZw

— Joseph Kim (@blackwings2011)

February 25, 2016

<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Are you there, how does he look at BP, whats your first impression?

[sipper65]

In one of Roch's blog entries today, he quoted Buck Showalter talking about Hyun Soo Kim, and said, "t's probably a big deal to him, but we have a long way to go," Showalter said. "It's good to see something through his eyes a little bit. He's been in Sarasota. He gets to see another side of it now. I'd like to expose him as much as I can to that. If he goes north with us, a least a lot of that stuff will be behind him.

Showalter said "If he goes north with us." Does this mean Kim has options? The fact that he's throwing "if" around mean that Buck doesn't like what he sees so far? Could it mean Buck wants to take advantage of his options like they do with pitchers. This would allow them to keep Rickard, Reimold, and Paredes. Then, if one gets hurt (likely Reimold), then they call Kim up from the minors.

I was reading the comment section on Roch's blog and no one was commenting about Buck's quote.

[Can_of_corn]

Theoretically he has options but I believe his contract stipulates that he can not be sent to the minors.